Sinterklaas And Zwarte Piet - Racism?

[.red-bleu.]

Sinterklaas is celebrated annually with the giving of gifts on Saint Nicholas Day (5 December) in the Netherlands and on the morning of 6 December, Saint Nicholas Day itself, in Belgium, Luxembourg, and some parts of France.

​Zwarte Piet (plural Zwarte Pieten) is a companion of Sinterklaas, usually portrayed by a man in blackface with black curly hair, dressed up like a 17th-century page in colourful attire, often sporting a lace collar and a feathered cap.
The Zwarte Pieten toss candy around, a tradition supposedly originating in the story of Saint Nicholas's saving three young girls from prostitution by tossing golden coins through their window at night to pay their dowries. In recent years the roe has been absent, to adapt to modern times.

In modern adaptations for television, Sinterklaas has developed a Zwarte Piet for every function: there is a head Piet (Hoofdpiet), a navigation Piet (Wegwijspiet) to navigate the steamboat from Spain to the Netherlands, a packing Piet (Pakjespiet) to pack all the gifts, an acrobatic Piet to climb roofs and stuff presents down the chimney, or to climb down the chimneys themselves. Over the years many stories have been added, and Zwarte Piet has developed from a rather unintelligent helper into a valuable assistant.

Traditionally Zwarte Piet's face is said to be black because he is a moor from Spain. Today, some prefer to say that his face is blackened with soot, as he has to climb through chimneys to deliver his gifts. The figure of Zwarte Piet is considered by some to be racist and the character has become increasingly controversial, especially in the Netherlands, in recent years.
As such, the traditions surrounding the holiday of Sinterklaas have been the subject of numerous editorials, debates, documentaries, protests and even violent clashes at festivals.




Saying: Zwarte Piet must stay, otherwise take off the headscarfs (as a response on the protests)

Nevertheless, both Zwarte Piet and the holiday remain popular in the Netherlands. In a 2013 survey, 92% of the Dutch public did not perceive Zwarte Piet as racist or associate him with slavery, and 91% were opposed to altering the character's appearance.



So what do you guys think? Racism or not? Tradition over racism?

[-:Undertaker:-]

No it isn't offensive and if anyone does find it offensive then grow the **** up, grow a pair of balls and stop crying at face paint. Western pansies.

I'm SICK of it. And if I see another Russell Brand video i'm gonna scream.

"You cannot put this in the face of people who have been oppressed, who have been slaves"

There are still slaves alive from 150 to 200 years ago you stupid ****?

[FlyingJesus]

There are slaves alive now Dan lol

[.red-bleu.]

I do think it is offensive, children are bullying dark children and naming them Zwarte Piet and stuff like that. Why don't change the skin color... Lots of people feel offended by this (children and adults), i'm sure the children won't matter if the skin is black, blue, orange or even like a syrup waffle(yes i'm serious).

[-:Undertaker:-]

There are slaves alive now Dan lol

Correct, there are slaves still alive now: mainly in black, asian and arab countries who still practice slavery on one another. But colonial slaves? The Dutch Kingdom abolished slavery throughout it's Empire in 1863 meaning even if you were a non-working slave at the age of 0 you'd be 151 years old.

They're all long dead, as are the Moorish in Spain the story is based upon.

I do think it is offensive, children are bullying dark children and naming them Zwarte Piet and stuff like that. Why don't change the skin color... Lots of people feel offended by this (children and adults), i'm sure the children won't matter if the skin is black, blue, orange or even like a syrup waffle(yes i'm serious).

You say most are offended by this (why would that matter anyway, there exists no right to not be offended) yet you yourself posted a 2013 poll which stated that 91% to 93% of Dutch people see nothing wrong with their tradition and don't want to change it.

As for children saying things, children say a lot of things and will always pick up on differences. You may aswell make a case for purple rain or the flying spaghetti monster if you think you can somehow abolish bullying or insults in schools. Insults are a part of life, deal with them and get on with it.

i'm sure the children won't matter if the skin is black, blue, orange

Surely that will just offend half of the Newcastle female population and people 'transitioning' to become oompa loompas?

[The Don]

Yeah, Blackface is pretty racist.

[Kyle]

This tradition is hilarious they look like gollywogs. Amazing.


~~from phone

[Empired]

That tradition was weird as heck but each to their own (A)

I don't think my opinion really matters here. White people might find it acceptable but seeing as it's involving blackface it shouldn't be up to white people. That's like me going into a café, seeing someone else order cake for themselves and saying "Waiter, cancel that cake. I'm on a diet."

If a lot of people are getting offended, upset, or even bullied as you said .red-bleu. because of this tradition it probably shouldn't be allowed to continue.

[-:Undertaker:-]

That tradition was weird as heck but each to their own (A)

I don't think my opinion really matters here. White people might find it acceptable but seeing as it's involving blackface it shouldn't be up to white people. That's like me going into a café, seeing someone else order cake for themselves and saying "Waiter, cancel that cake. I'm on a diet."

If a lot of people are getting offended, upset, or even bullied as you said .red-bleu. because of this tradition it probably shouldn't be allowed to continue.

So the perpetually offended should dictate to the rest of the population what is right and what is wrong? Interestingly when it actually comes to these types of debates or issues, it is usually white, liberal, weak western men who are the ones getting their knickers in a twist on behalf of everybody else.

And the Netherlands is the home of the Dutch people, who are mainly white. It is up to them - and they see no probem say the polls cited.

[Empired]

So the perpetually offended should dictate to the rest of the population what is right and what is wrong? Interestingly when it actually comes to these types of debates or issues, it is usually white, liberal, weak western men who are the ones getting their knickers in a twist on behalf of everybody else.

And the Netherlands is the home of the Dutch people, who are mainly white. It is up to them - and they see no probem say the polls cited.

No sorry, maybe I didn't make my point as clearly as I could have. I meant seeing as this could be seen as offensive to black people, I think it should be them who gets to make the decision on whether or not this is racist.