[RANT] Interesting read.

[StefanWolves]

http://footballwatcher.blogspot.com/2008/08/3pm-premier-league-under-attack-in-uk.html

Read it all.

But this part is what I am mostly interested in:

What I do support is the black-out which continues in the UK at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon, and keeps attendances high at lower league football. The English second tier, for instance, is the eight most watched league in Europe, which would surely dimish should more Premier League football be available on a Saturday afternoon. As a fan of Morecambe, when we play on Tuesday night and go up against a Champion's League matchnight, 500 can easily be knocked off our attendance. It doesn't sound like much, but on average attendances of 2500, it's a significant downturn in revenue. I'm sure most clubs at a lower level realise that not everyone that comes through the gate is a dyed-in-the-wool supporter, and may have loyalties elsewhere, but are grateful for their custom regardless.

People often make the argument that other leagues in Europe survive, despite having all their top flight matches screened live. They have a point, but often in Europe the top flight matches are played at a time when they don't affect lower league matches. For instance, in Spain, lower flight football is often played in the morning, whilst La Liga is screened in the evening. Other leagues also don't charge the extortionate entrance fees charged in the Premier League - it may be that the masses of empty seats in the like of the Reebok Stadium or Middlesbrough's Roverside are not because people are watching down the pub on a foreign station, but because the price is too high. Half the admission cost, and watch attendances rise. German football is the perfect example - almost capacity stadiums all over the Bundesliga, great atmosphere and all down to being able to turn up on a match day, hand over less than a tenner and watch top flight football.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against all the Premier League matches being on TV, and I'm sure it will happen one day. But lower flight football must be protected at all costs, and put first for a change rather than letting the Premier League extend it's grip further. Perhaps move all the Premier League matches bar the lunchtime and evening Saturday kick-offs to Sunday, and let the part-time fans help keep the lower league teams afloat.

The other interesting aspect to this situation that I find is that it shows the attitude of a lot of English football "fans" to foreign football, who find it incomprehensible that anyone would want to watch anything other than the Premier League. I don't expect anyone to get up and start supporting their local team on the back of this, but given that there are regularly four live matches each weekend in the Premier League in the UK, why not give something else a go on a Saturday afternoon?

What jumps out most is a comment on the bottom of that page; Sky Sports Germany shows ALL Bundesliga games, and then shows ALL Championship games (Equivalent to out Championship, e.g; West Brom V Newcastle) ~ they show every single game live:

Since Germany started showing every Championship (Second German Bundesliga) match live the league has been able to achieve record attendances. The 3pm black-out is a joke. I don't want to watch other people watching the footie on Sky Sports News. I want the choice of at least three different 3pm kick-offs!

So, some of you are probably thinking, WELL YEHHHH, BUT IT PROTECTS OUR LOWER LEAGUE FOOTBALL! ~ simply answer (included in the paragraphs above) - move all Premier League matches to the Sunday, and let the Football League play all their games on the Saturday, and then show every Premier League game live via Sky, but I suppose you're stil saying, yeah but, it'll still affect Premier League stadium attendances! no, what clubs would do is lower their seat prices, as they would be able to because they'd be recieving extra funding from Sky/ESPN, to show their game, so it wouldn't affect them, a stat to back this up is that since German TV started showing ALL Bundesliga and Championship football, there stadium attendances have hit a RECORD HIGH.

So, why is there still a need for a 3pm black out of live TV on British TV? when the rest of Europe gets to watch ALL of the Premier League games LIVE, even Saturday 3PM kick offs, Sky Italia gets every single Premier League game life, So does Canal in France, and so does Sky Germany, yet it's us, the English, the country of where the football is broadcast from, doesn't get to watch this.

If you're wondering what the hell I'm on about, and what the blackout rule is, it's simple; UEFA offers every countries football accosiation (ours being The FA) a blackout rule, which stops live footballing being broadcast in the country it's being played, The FA set a black out time of 2:55pm - 5.00pm so no live football can be shown between that time in this country, but it doesn't apply for other countries, they can show what they like.

See here for ALL countries that blackout football in their country, interestingly, The Premier League is the ONLY major league in Europe that doesn't show EVERY Premier League game live in it's native country, which is disgusting; http://www.uefa.com/uefa/News/Kind=8192/newsId=19817.html

So yes, that is yet another rant at the pathetic FA.

I can only hope, that one day, we will get the same priveledges as what they do in France, Spain, Italy, Greece, and EVEN ALBANIA - the poorest country in Europe.

Sorry if none of you care, but this is something I feel very passionately about, we don't get nothing good in this country, in terms of live sport, we also miss out on most of the boxing... but don't even get me started on that.

Sorry if you don't care about this, if you don't, then I'm sorry for wasting your time if you read this.

[Mexel]

He makes a few intresting points, but the bit about knocking 500 fans off there attendance due to champions league football, i just dont see how that works at all, do all fans in league 2 support the top 4 aswell? :rolleyes:

[StefanWolves]

He makes a few intresting points, but the bit about knocking 500 fans off there attendance due to champions league football, i just dont see how that works at all, do all fans in league 2 support the top 4 aswell? :rolleyes:

I'm sure some are tempted by staying in or going down the pub and saving money, rather than buying an over priced ticket.

Which is why The Football League should be played on Saturdays at 3PM like normal, none live at all, which will encourage fans to go and keep attendances up.

Have all Premier League games live on a Sunday at 3PM, Sunday is the crap day of the week, and people are also off work, so more fans will be able to get to matches, all these matches should be shown live on Sky Sports/ESPN, like ALL other major leagues. The Premier League should make football clubs lower ticket prices, the FA should offer all Premier League clubs more money, to make up for the loss on ticket prices, as they would be able to afford it, seeing as though if all PL games are shown live, would mean more money from Sky and ESPN coming their way, as they'd have to pay for the rights to screen more matches.

That's my view anyway.

[adaym]

He makes a few intresting points, but the bit about knocking 500 fans off there attendance due to champions league football, i just dont see how that works at all, do all fans in league 2 support the top 4 aswell? :rolleyes:
Funnily enough it's a true point, we get ****e attendances on Champs Lg nights.

[StefanWolves]

Funnily enough it's a true point, we get ****e attendances on Champs Lg nights.

how much are your ticket prices on those nights?

[adaym]

how much are your ticket prices on those nights?
Same as the always are, £23-5. The thing is, they shouldn't have to lower ticket prices.

[StefanWolves]

They would have to on Champions League nights, but that's besides the point anyway, the whole point is, if all PL games were to be shown on Sunday, all at once at 3PM, and all Football League games on Saturday 3PM, you wouldn't have to lower prices, because fans would be getting best of both worlds.

[adaym]

It makes no sense, at all - what happens to all the clubs that receive £30m from Sky/ESPN/other broadcasters in the PL? Where will they get their money from? Don't say ticket sales because they all mostly get full houses anyway.. It'll never happen, and nor should it. Ticket prices are not going to lowered and nor should they be.

[Mexel]

Wow, i cant believe it makes a differnce. Whats happened to BBC1 showing championship matches btw? Hasnt it only show West Brom v Newcastle so far :S?

[StefanWolves]

Wow, i cant believe it makes a differnce. Whats happened to BBC1 showing championship matches btw? Hasnt it only show West Brom v Newcastle so far :S?

They only show 15 a year I think. They broadcast the Newcastle game at Saturday at 5:05pm.

[Jack.Lfc]

Think BBC will get more fixtures after christmas.

[adaym]

So that means all 3 fixtures shown on the BBC have been Newcastle. :rolleyes: typical.

[StefanWolves]

So that means all 3 fixtures shown on the BBC have been Newcastle. :rolleyes: typical.

well they are the biggest in demand club in the championship, the BBC nor Sky don't really have much of a choice.

[Geraint]

Wow, i cant believe it makes a differnce. Whats happened to BBC1 showing championship matches btw? Hasnt it only show West Brom v Newcastle so far :S?

Only have about 8 all season. Had Ipswich v Newcastle on Saturday and we're on v Forest on 1st November.


Why should the Premier League play on a Sunday all the time. Lots of fans are against Sunday football, I for one, hate it. I know they play on Sunday's alot but why should we ruin the experience of Premier League fans just for lower league clubs to get an extra few fans. How about lower league teams like Morecambe play on a Friday night to see if they can get a few extra, that's what Accrington have done. Filming all the games over here will just make it worse. We struggle as it is, too many armchair fans who'd be happy to sit on their arse watching the tele than going to match. Yes, the clubs get extra TV money but what's more - extra tv money or extra revenue on the day? German tickets are cheap. They make little profit. Alot of clubs in Germany are pretty much owned by the fans. The fans put on shows at the ground, they open bars in the ground just to get that extra revenue. Fans would rather travel 5 miles to the ground for a pint just to give their money to that club. Television has pretty much ruined football. Long gone are the days where your local club would get 60,000 at home, people would rather sit in and watch Man Utd on the TV than supporting their local team. Some lower league teams are affected by their location. Accrington is slap bang in the middle of Burnley and Blackburn who are both Premier League teams. Although, fans should still watch their club, you'd think that some of the bigger clubs who help out their local lower league teams. I know that we played Merthyr to help raise funds for them when they were in need and I'm sure Burnley did the same thing for Accrington.

Lower league teams are to blame for their lack of fans half the time anyway. Went to Solihull Moors FC the other day and they charge £10 for adults and they're in the Conference South. It's hard to say how it works out. Do you get less people in on more money or more people in on less money. Probably the latter as you can buy programmes and refreshments etc. Let's remember though, we're in a world of over-paid players who neeed their money. The money has to come through somewhere and us mugs who watch our team will stump up week in week out to watch them.

We've got Derby tomorrow and our attendance could be affected by the Champions League. I have to admit, I like to sit in and watch the Champions League and I'm pretty happy that ITV's game is now on a Wednesday.



Okay, I don't know how I've gone from changing matchdays to all that but meh.

[adaym]

I'd much rather watch West Brom/Cardiff/Preston/Reading/Leicester than Newcastle.

[Geraint]

Oh, and the FA set that blackout time because it turns people away from the games. Showing games might work in Germany but it'll have an effect on every club in the country if they do and they'll all lose money. Refer back to my other post of course. :)

[StefanWolves]

Oh, and the FA set that blackout time because it turns people away from the games. Showing games might work in Germany but it'll have an effect on every club in the country if they do and they'll all lose money. Refer back to my other post of course. :)

You forget to mention Germany is the 3rd richest country in the world, closely followed by the UK. If structured correctly, as in football league teams play at different times to PL sides, then I don't see why it can't be tested for a season, just as long that lower league clubs get some sort of fall back money off the FA if they don't get as much attendance.

But then again that is never going to really happen.

The blackout rule will slowly but surely disappear, it's inevitable, Sky/ESPN will dangle the money in front of the FA, and they'll come running with open arms. I give my thumbs up to the idea, but I do hear what you lot are disagreeing with, but the FA would have to sort those things, they would have to ensure that it wouldn't affect lower league clubs.

[Geraint]

Why are you so for it then. You go to watch Wolves. Are you saying that you'd stay home and watch more football if matches were screened at 3pm. I can't see how it'll help clubs.

[StefanWolves]

Why are you so for it then. You go to watch Wolves. Are you saying that you'd stay home and watch more football if matches were screened at 3pm. I can't see how it'll help clubs.

No, I'm not saying that. I'd like to be able to pay for my Sky Subscription (like others in Italy, and Germany do) ~ and be able to watch my club play live away from home, as my family nor I can't afford to go to many away days. I also don't like the fact that some Italians in Napoli, Milan, Germans in Frankfurt, Berlin, can watch my football team play live, against a team like Wigan (away) in a half full stadium, which isn't even available for me to watch, in the country of which it is played. I don't like or appreciate that one bit.

And if showing all Premier League games live means that my season ticket price comes down, and that away ticket prices go down, and just prices doing down in general, then I'm all for it, Stadiums in the Premier League are actually struggling to sell out stadiums at the moment, Bolton is a prime example, I'm sure teams that find it hard to sell out their stadiums would welcome this, as they would get more money from the FA because of TV deals, and they would be able to lower ticket prices, encouraging more fans to come and watch it, live, without loosing money.

[Mexel]

Yeah i hate sunday football, waking up at 10 on a Sunday morning to watch a stupid 12 o'clock kick off which is only ever against Wolves or Villa is horrible lol. It just kills the fun due to the fact of tiredness.

[luce]

Only problem i can see with all games sunday is someone like portsmouth have to play someone up north it would be a hell of a treck for one day. Also most park/pub (what ever you want to call them) games are on sunday for the amature men amoung us. It's a good idea in theroy but i can't see it being implemented any time soon.

[StefanWolves]

Only problem i can see with all games sunday is someone like portsmouth have to play someone up north it would be a hell of a treck for one day. Also most park/pub (what ever you want to call them) games are on sunday for the amature men amoung us. It's a good idea in theroy but i can't see it being implemented any time soon.

well teams manage to get to saturday 3 pm games which are far away, why not sunday 3 pm games?

[adaym]

well teams manage to get to saturday 3 pm games which are far away, why not sunday 3 pm games?
two words:

public transport

[StefanWolves]

two words:

public transport

Public Transport is open on Sundays, the buses and trams are here, taxis also work on Sundays. Most people getting to football matches don't use public transport anyway, only trains really, which are also open and running Sundays, most people use cars, and with Sunday being the quietest day of the week, the motorways are never really sluggish on Sundays, so that's not a problem neither.

Public transport has nothing to do with any of this, even if public transport is closed in some areas during Sundays, then moving PL games to Sundays is more of a good idea, because they'd open on Sundays, and create more jobs/people can work on Sundays, thus earning more money.

And if you're talking about away fans, then almost all fans use coaches from their home stadium, and Minibus taxes and trains. So it really isn't a problem at all.

[Browney]

Just don't show televised matches. More stadiums packed out, better atmosphere. But really, who would go for that? If you televise all matches, no one will go. I live a good 1 and a half hour trip from SOL, why would I trek up north when I can flick the tele on in my own home?

[adaym]

Not once did I say public transport was closed - it is, however, very limited.

[StefanWolves]

Not once did I say public transport was closed - it is, however, very limited.

How is it? believe it or not this country has one of the best public transports in the world, it already coped with 95% of all football games being played on a Saturday, which makes your point even more invalid.

[adaym]

Oh my God. I mean this in the most loving way possible but how can you be as ignorant as this to the workings of public transport? On a Sunday everything is very limited public transport wise. Take for instance my local train station - weekdays and Saturdays, there's 2 trains every hour. On a Sunday, one train every two hours. It's the same everywhere for everything. It's a Sunday.

:rolleyes: That, my friend, makes your point invalid.

[StefanWolves]

Oh my God. I mean this in the most loving way possible but how can you be as ignorant as this to the workings of public transport? On a Sunday everything is very limited public transport wise. Take for instance my local train station - weekdays and Saturdays, there's 2 trains every hour. On a Sunday, one train every two hours. It's the same everywhere for everything. It's a Sunday.

:rolleyes: That, my friend, makes your point invalid.

Did you read one of my above posts? maybe I should quote myself, for you:


Public transport has nothing to do with any of this, even if public transport is closed in some areas during Sundays, then moving PL games to Sundays is more of a good idea, because they'd open on Sundays, and create more jobs/people can work on Sundays, thus earning more money.

Did you not read that part?

[adaym]

Yeah I'm sure the government is all for extra expenses :rolleyes:

It's a stupid idea when you get into the nitty gritty of it all.

[StefanWolves]

Yeah I'm sure the government is all for extra expenses :rolleyes:

It's a stupid idea when you get into the nitty gritty of it all.

It's not stupid at all, when you weigh all the pros and cons up, it will earn people more money, make more jobs, and satisfy paying subscribers to Sky, it must work, especially when it happens in the rest of Europe, especially in Spain, they show all league games live, have good attendances, and have probably the best league in the world this year, but us English can't have it because people have pessimistic mentalities.

It'll happen within the next three years, there is too much money in it for the Clubs, the FA, and Sky, it's inevitable, and I for once cannot wait for it to happen.

[adaym]

I'm sure there's plenty of better ideas out there and when I think of one I'll let you know but I'm not employed to do this.