View Full Version : Should Immigrants get FREE education?
Well, my sister asked me my thoughts on this, and it made me thing, should they? Some people come to England just to get this free education which is costing the goverment more money, therefore causing reccesion ect.
My view on this is that Immigrants should be given a free education after 4-5 years of being in the country, and therefore, people wouldn't be coming to England for a free education because they would have to wait 4-5 years to get it.
Doing this would then keep down the numbers of illegal and legal immegrants, keeping Englands population lower, and also keeping the amount of the Tax payers money lower because they don't have to spend it on schools.
What are your views?
Access
02-10-2009, 08:06 PM
they should all **** off back to their own country and stop taking ours for granted.. not being racist or anything but it's beyond a joke now
Technologic
02-10-2009, 08:07 PM
Education is a right, not a privilege. People come to this country to give their children an education, you should be proud of a country where the high standard of education is one of it's main draws.
If they are paying taxes then yes, they should be entitled to free education like anyone else. If they've come purely to spunge off the state then there are many things that they shouldn't be allowed.
The only thing I have against the non-British living in this country is their rights to accept benefits and live off of our tax.
I really feel that If minorities want to live in our community, they should atleast have the decency to abide by natural law and find employment.
I'm really against that we're so open to letting people migrate to the country.
they should all **** off back to their own country and stop taking ours for granted.. not being racist or anything but it's beyond a joke now
Im not too over the top, but i kinda agree
Education is a right, not a privilege. People come to this country to give their children an education, you should be proud of a country where the high standard of education is one of it's main draws.
Yes but, theres so many of them, they just come to rape the country clean, if you know what I mean. They come to get everything to free and they think they dont abide by the law
If they are paying taxes then yes, they should be entitled to free education like anyone else. If they've come purely to spunge off the state then there are many things that they shouldn't be allowed.
I agree completely.
The only thing I have against the non-British living in this country is their rights to accept benefits and live off of our tax.
I really feel that If minorities want to live in our community, they should atleast have the decency to abide by natural law and find employment.
I'm really against that we're so open to letting people migrate to the country.
Agreee a bit too, I'm rather mixed on this.
-:Undertaker:-
02-10-2009, 08:12 PM
I think its pretty clear, just turn the question around; would any other country allow foreign students to study there for free? - no.
GommeInc
02-10-2009, 08:13 PM
If the parents are working in any sort of way, then yes. If not, then no.
everyone coming out with good points.
alexxxxx
02-10-2009, 11:13 PM
foreigners don't get free education - infact they pay alot more. My college accepts international students and fees are £7k/year and this is a state college. And that is without accommodation. For university they have to pay full fees because the local authorities won't pay. i'm not totally sure, but i think immigrants have to pay some fees for school if they've lived in the country for less than 3/4 years...
VirtualG
03-10-2009, 02:34 AM
I think education is a right not a privellage, but the majority of the world does not abide by the basic human rights, not that Im saying Britain, or any other country, has the right to do that because someone else is. The type of education is what should be debatted. Primary education, in my opinion, should be free, secondary and teritiary should not be soo "free". I mean, if they pay taxes and contribute to the country then yes, they should, just like any other British citizen, but if they come to Britain and live off social welfare or "the doll" and just bludge then no, they should not get "free" education, but if they were paying taxes then it isn't really free as they, like most people, are paying for it through taxes. It's a good debate.
Ardemax
03-10-2009, 08:13 AM
yes they should
if their parents have come here for a better life and work hard - why not? they probably work harder than a lot of people in britain already
foreigners don't get free education - infact they pay alot more. My college accepts international students and fees are £7k/year and this is a state college. And that is without accommodation. For university they have to pay full fees because the local authorities won't pay. i'm not totally sure, but i think immigrants have to pay some fees for school if they've lived in the country for less than 3/4 years...
I think education is a right not a privellage, but the majority of the world does not abide by the basic human rights, not that Im saying Britain, or any other country, has the right to do that because someone else is. The type of education is what should be debatted. Primary education, in my opinion, should be free, secondary and teritiary should not be soo "free". I mean, if they pay taxes and contribute to the country then yes, they should, just like any other British citizen, but if they come to Britain and live off social welfare or "the doll" and just bludge then no, they should not get "free" education, but if they were paying taxes then it isn't really free as they, like most people, are paying for it through taxes. It's a good debate.
Thanks, its a but of a mixed debate.
yes they should
if their parents have come here for a better life and work hard - why not? they probably work harder than a lot of people in britain already
I totally agree but only if the parents are willing to work and contribute.
er i've got a nigerian mate who has to pay a sht load of money to go to the same sixth form as me? it's alright tho cos his dad's a doctor and his mam is a lawyer lol. :(
alexxxxx
03-10-2009, 11:05 AM
er i've got a nigerian mate who has to pay a sht load of money to go to the same sixth form as me? it's alright tho cos his dad's a doctor and his mam is a lawyer lol. :(
exactly, that's how it is. immigrants don't get everything handed to them on a plate.
i personally think they should be entitled to free education if their parents have been paying tax for 3 years previously.
Hitman
03-10-2009, 12:41 PM
foreigners don't get free education - infact they pay alot more. My college accepts international students and fees are £7k/year and this is a state college. And that is without accommodation. For university they have to pay full fees because the local authorities won't pay. i'm not totally sure, but i think immigrants have to pay some fees for school if they've lived in the country for less than 3/4 years...
Wow, your college is different to many others then... mine is free, you only pay for transport and £10/year for material fees...
If the immigrants parents are working and paying tax, then yes, by all means they can study for free. If they're not then they can bog off.
-:Undertaker:-
03-10-2009, 12:45 PM
I think education is a right not a privellage, but the majority of the world does not abide by the basic human rights, not that Im saying Britain, or any other country, has the right to do that because someone else is. The type of education is what should be debatted. Primary education, in my opinion, should be free, secondary and teritiary should not be soo "free". I mean, if they pay taxes and contribute to the country then yes, they should, just like any other British citizen, but if they come to Britain and live off social welfare or "the doll" and just bludge then no, they should not get "free" education, but if they were paying taxes then it isn't really free as they, like most people, are paying for it through taxes. It's a good debate.
The United Kingdom needs to stop catering for the world, Education is not a right across the world therefore we should not cater for that. We had an Empire, attempted to Education 1/4 of the world but alas it failed and they threw us out. They have all had over sixty years now to fix their own problems, we can say we tried though.
exactly, that's how it is. immigrants don't get everything handed to them on a plate.
i personally think they should be entitled to free education if their parents have been paying tax for 3 years previously.
They travel across the world, seas, channels, all of Europe, Africa, the Middle East, across dozens of countries, rivers, in ships, lorries to come here; do you really honestly think they come here for anything else besides welfare?.
BeanEgg
03-10-2009, 12:48 PM
I believe immigrants should get a free education. Every human has the right to an education. I only disagree with the free education when they disrupt everyone else's education whilst their parents are on benefits. That's what annoys me most.
But then again some immigrants have to pay for the education (International Students)
er i've got a nigerian mate who has to pay a sht load of money to go to the same sixth form as me? it's alright tho cos his dad's a doctor and his mam is a lawyer lol. :(
The United Kingdom needs to stop catering for the world, Education is not a right across the world therefore we should not cater for that. We had an Empire, attempted to Education 1/4 of the world but alas it failed and they threw us out. They have all had over sixty years now to fix their own problems, we can say we tried though.
They travel across the world, seas, channels, all of Europe, Africa, the Middle East, across dozens of countries, rivers, in ships, lorries to come here; do you really honestly think they come here for anything else besides welfare?.
That is my opinion entirely, we are holding too much of a responsibilty. If theyw ant a free education then they should go and complain to their goverment, not ruin ours.
Ardemax
03-10-2009, 02:19 PM
im sorry undertaker - but put yourself in their footsteps for once instead of just thinking you're so high up that nobody can even speak to you
a human is a human - not some animal (exceptions go to humans that are animals).
syko2006
03-10-2009, 03:42 PM
If the parents of the people that want the education pay tax, and have jobs, then yes.
Someone in my school has not long joined, and he can barely (no exaggeration) speak a word of English. His parents are still in his home country, (I don't know where this is) and he's moved over to live with his uncle and Nan.
Before someone goes ahead and says, ''how do you know, if he can't speak English that well?'' He comes to the shops with us at lunch time, and my friends got got onto the subject of where he's from, and he told us all this, by what little English he can speak.
His visa ran out the other month, and his guardians had to re-apply for it.
Back on topic, I've seen enough border control programmes to know that many of the illegal immigrants that come over from France through the lorries, seek asylum, and go into schools.
This is a very interesting thread.
alexxxxx
03-10-2009, 04:14 PM
They travel across the world, seas, channels, all of Europe, Africa, the Middle East, across dozens of countries, rivers, in ships, lorries to come here; do you really honestly think they come here for anything else besides welfare?.
illegal immigrants need to do that. Normal immigrants come on a plane from their country of origin with documents from the British embassy, which allows them to live and work in Britain with certain conditions.
Illegal Immigrants come to get a job where there might not be one at home. I guess the majority of these illegal immigrants claim asylum when caught.
And if you understand - my college is FREE for me (I am british), my hong kong friends have to pay £7k/year. That's how it is everywhere. That is the rule. They come on a Hong Kong British Overseas Territory passport, with a student visa.
-:Undertaker:-
03-10-2009, 05:15 PM
im sorry undertaker - but put yourself in their footsteps for once instead of just thinking you're so high up that nobody can even speak to you
a human is a human - not some animal (exceptions go to humans that are animals).
A human is a human, and not all humans can have everything they want because its something called reality, something you need to grasp the concept of.
A country is a country, it only has a certain amount of money.
illegal immigrants need to do that. Normal immigrants come on a plane from their country of origin with documents from the British embassy, which allows them to live and work in Britain with certain conditions.
Illegal Immigrants come to get a job where there might not be one at home. I guess the majority of these illegal immigrants claim asylum when caught.
And if you understand - my college is FREE for me (I am british), my hong kong friends have to pay £7k/year. That's how it is everywhere. That is the rule. They come on a Hong Kong British Overseas Territory passport, with a student visa.
The majority of illegal immigrants are not caught, hence why the government or even the opposition have no idea of how many are in this country. If we need you and your skills you are very welcome, if not then you can go back to wherever you came from.
It is that simple, so simple infact, that nearly the rest of the world can work it.
Ardemax
03-10-2009, 05:44 PM
A human is a human, and not all humans can have everything they want because its something called reality, something you need to grasp the concept of.
A country is a country, it only has a certain amount of money.
The majority of illegal immigrants are not caught, hence why the government or even the opposition have no idea of how many are in this country. If we need you and your skills you are very welcome, if not then you can go back to wherever you came from.
It is that simple, so simple infact, that nearly the rest of the world can work it.
the reality is everyone should be treated equally
attitude like yours creates no good
-:Undertaker:-
03-10-2009, 05:53 PM
the reality is everyone should be treated equally
attitude like yours creates no good
An attidude such as yours makes a country bankrupt and dumps millions more people into poverty.
Caution
03-10-2009, 05:53 PM
the reality is everyone should be treated equally
attitude like yours creates no goodYes, everyone should be treated equally. But they can't, because the world isn't perfect. :rolleyes:
Money should be spent educating students that have family that have actually contributed to the country.
Ardemax
03-10-2009, 07:25 PM
im not saying feed every mouth?
im saying if someone is coming over, prepared to work, pay taxes, then why shouldn't their children be entitled to free education?
-:Undertaker:-
03-10-2009, 07:41 PM
im not saying feed every mouth?
im saying if someone is coming over, prepared to work, pay taxes, then why shouldn't their children be entitled to free education?
I never said they weren't entitled to free education, the only conditions I laid down were that we needed their skills and they are working, aswell as a 5-year waiting period to make sure the system doesn't get abused.
You always seem too eager to argue with me, but it only ever falls back on yourself so by all means, carry on.
I agree with every post undertaker has made in this thread. Nothing else to say really.
ifuseekamy
04-10-2009, 06:05 AM
Depends if they want to learn or not. An immigrant who's going to get straight A*s in their GCSEs is better than a British kid who disrupts every lesson and is going to end up failing.
Depends if they want to learn or not. An immigrant who's going to get straight A*s in their GCSEs is better than a British kid who disrupts every lesson and is going to end up failing.
But if an immigrant goes back to wherever once they've finished education then it was a waste of time and money us educating them as we get nothing back.
I think if they come to the UK for education and it's all done above board then yes, aslong as they go back to their own country. Otherwise what happens to their home country is called the "brain drain" say if 100 indains come here to train as doctors and nurses and 100 stay in india to train as a rice grower or something and then indians who came here stayed here the "smarter" people would have been taken from india therefore not benifiting India at all.
If that system as inputted then it would benifit england and indida (or whereever) :)
@Nick ~ who cares??? We already have enough. These people have nothing like you can't even imagin. Yet half of them have amazing talent :) it's not all about getting something back to start with it's a long term plan. It's better then sending out millions of pounds of aid and health care out there when something hits. If they have their share of doctors and health care they can stand on their own two feet, isn't that what we want?
FlyingJesus
05-10-2009, 03:11 PM
If we need you and your skills you are very welcome, if not then you can go back to wherever you came from.
It is that simple, so simple infact, that nearly the rest of the world can work it.
It's also fairly simple to see that if someone brings their children over then denying them an education isn't exactly likely to make them useful to us in the future. If we're going to keep them here we might as well have them educated and eager to work
the reality is everyone should be treated equally
lol equality doesn't exist, never has and never can
But if an immigrant goes back to wherever once they've finished education then it was a waste of time and money us educating them as we get nothing back.
Generally they'll come here and get educated here because the pay here is far better. If you go all the way through medical school and become a doctor I doubt you'd want to turn down the UK wages for whatever they pay in India and the such like
thats the most ridiculous idea ive ever heard. Sure why not? they already scrounge our taxes... lets let them have a free education too? :/ NOT.
HotelUser
05-10-2009, 03:34 PM
If the immigrant has citizenship in a country than I feel they should be entitled to all benefits that a citizen born in that country gets.
Not many people are going to get citizenship in a country, get their free post secondary education and then run off to another country. Clearly that's not the case. They get their free education to get a better job, then pay taxes back to the government through that job.
I highly doubt immigrants getting free education adds much to England's deficit:P.
ifuseekamy
05-10-2009, 06:04 PM
But if an immigrant goes back to wherever once they've finished education then it was a waste of time and money us educating them as we get nothing back.
Well they'd produce statistics which is all the government and schools care about. But it's doubtful they'd go through the trouble of emmigrating and claiming citizenship just for the benefits of education. As I said we have more problems with layabout British pupils who'll probably end up on benefits or go to college to claim EMA without doing any of the work.
ItsDave
05-10-2009, 08:06 PM
They don't come here for the education. Did you watch the news recently? They intervied someone who tried to cross the border and this immigrant said something along the lines of: "We come to France to go to England. France has nothing for us, Britain? It will give us a free house, free money. It will hand us everything, that is why we try so hard to get to England."
Therefore they make me sick. Well more importantly our Government. If it wasn't so lousy and didn't hand everything to these, people, they wouldn't be trying so bloody hard to get here. This whole country just makes me sick. Immigrant's, Benefit Thieve's (Chavs), Government.
We need to take a good luck at other contries laws, such as France or Germany or Spain? Immigrants have to pass most of these countries to get to us. If we took on some of these laws, then they wouldn't stop. However.
If these laws were then introduced, the current immigrants would be homeless and have nowhere to live, but thus be deported. Our Government needs to be shaken up big time.
LuketheDuke
05-10-2009, 11:48 PM
lot of xenaphobia floating around on these boards, I say of course to any person who has British residency.
And i think Ardemax was trying to discuss the view that "Immigrants" seem to all be lumped into the same category when education is discussed.
-:Undertaker:-
05-10-2009, 11:59 PM
lot of xenaphobia floating around on these boards, I say of course to any person who has British residency.
And i think Ardemax was trying to discuss the view that "Immigrants" seem to all be lumped into the same category when education is discussed.
Xenophobic because we want basic immigration controls?.
LuketheDuke
06-10-2009, 12:09 AM
Xenophobic as we talk of immigrants like their here on some sort of illegal basis. Their british citizens like us.
-:Undertaker:-
06-10-2009, 12:18 AM
Xenophobic as we talk of immigrants like their here on some sort of illegal basis. Their british citizens like us.
That is when we are talking about illegal immigrants, not immigrants.
LuketheDuke
06-10-2009, 12:25 AM
then whats the big deal with this thread?
People who are British in the British education system.
-:Undertaker:-
06-10-2009, 12:32 AM
then whats the big deal with this thread?
People who are British in the British education system.
The issues are;
should newly arrived immigrants recieve educational benefits?
should immigrants who do not work recieve educational benefits?
should immigration be reformed?
FlyingJesus
06-10-2009, 12:38 AM
A lot of the people here are mistaking immigrants for illegal immigrants. A massive majority of immigrants that are here legally do work even if they receive benefits, which is no different to any of our own parents getting whatever money they get for having you lot in education while they work or whatever other benefits they might be getting. I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that we should open our doors to anyone who wants to come here and "take" our money without working, but bringing up a whole generation of uneducated persons just because their parents weren't born here is not only ridiculous as a principle but stupid in terms of a sustainable future for the country
LuketheDuke
06-10-2009, 12:45 AM
^^Thats my beef.
Ardemax
06-10-2009, 05:40 AM
so yes, immigrants should get free education after say 6 months of paying taxes
Invent
06-10-2009, 05:42 AM
If they pay taxes, then yes...there's no reason for them not to receive a free education if they or their parents pay taxes..
HotelUser
06-10-2009, 11:02 AM
The issues are;
should newly arrived immigrants recieve educational benefits?
should immigrants who do not work recieve educational benefits?
should immigration be reformed?
So we should charge little 11 year olds for their education, even though other little 11 year olds born in England might also move out of the country at some point in time:rolleyes:...
Successful immigrants to this country are British citizens, so yes they should. :S
GommeInc
06-10-2009, 12:17 PM
A lot of the people here are mistaking immigrants for illegal immigrants. A massive majority of immigrants that are here legally do work even if they receive benefits, which is no different to any of our own parents getting whatever money they get for having you lot in education while they work or whatever other benefits they might be getting. I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that we should open our doors to anyone who wants to come here and "take" our money without working, but bringing up a whole generation of uneducated persons just because their parents weren't born here is not only ridiculous as a principle but stupid in terms of a sustainable future for the country
What he said ^ Immigrants are legal, illegal ones are the ones everyone has "beef" with. You all seem to be arguing about education and immigrants, yet you're showing typical uneducated dribble when it comes to the word and meaning of "immigrant".
An immigrant could be anyone - Chinese, French, Iranian, Pakistani, German - seeking citizenship or settlement, and has won that benefit to legally stay in that country, either temporarily (e.g. student) or permanently (e.g. for work and/or family). It is not to be mistaken for migrant, which is where they jump from country to country similar to travelling, but for work rather than settlement. An illegal immigrant who bypasses laws, boundries and enters a country illegally to live there. They cannot get an education and cannot reap off the benefits such as free housing, because these go through checks which require passports that show national identification.
They can get housing and/or jobs IF a citizen, citizens, or company is breaking the law by offering them housing or work without getting them checked. It is why businesses and companies get closed down or heavily fined if they are caught giving work to illegal immigrants.
So yes, immigrants should be entitled to free education if they can find it. They've earnt the right. But as some people have mentioned, some people pay alot for education as an immigrant and alot of universities have immigrant (and migrant) students studying, and they pay alot for that.
-:Undertaker:-
06-10-2009, 01:41 PM
So we should charge little 11 year olds for their education, even though other little 11 year olds born in England might also move out of the country at some point in time:rolleyes:...
11 year olds do not pay taxes, nice try at a witty comment though.
HotelUser
06-10-2009, 07:30 PM
11 year olds do not pay taxes, nice try at a witty comment though.
Obviously their parents would pay taxes. It's not a witty comment, because that's what is being suggested here. Charging the little 11 year olds to go to school.
-:Undertaker:-
06-10-2009, 07:34 PM
Obviously their parents would pay taxes.
My comment succeeded;).
..so worded properly, it would of read 'So we should charge immigrant parents for their childs education, even though other families born in England might also move out of the country at some point in time.'
It depends on how long they have been here, do they work, and if they are planning to stay or not. On the point of families moving out of England, well i'm afraid they have paid their taxes and were born here, the British educational system is not for the world to use when they please.
HotelUser
06-10-2009, 07:43 PM
..so worded properly, it would of read 'So we should charge immigrant parents for their childs education, even though other families born in England might also move out of the country at some point in time.'
.
No. Charging little 11 year olds for education fits. It's assumed that their guardians would pay for it. Even if that wasn't the case, there's some African countries where the students bring a small portion of money to class each day. Thus the "little 11 year olds" would be giving the money for their own education ;).
If they are a citizen of England they are entitled to the same benefits as any other citizen. People born in England can move away after getting an education? Since you very seldom hear of the affects of immigrants leeching off the education system it's really a non issue :).
-:Undertaker:-
06-10-2009, 10:44 PM
No. Charging little 11 year olds for education fits. It's assumed that their guardians would pay for it. Even if that wasn't the case, there's some African countries where the students bring a small portion of money to class each day. Thus the "little 11 year olds" would be giving the money for their own education ;).
If they are a citizen of England they are entitled to the same benefits as any other citizen. People born in England can move away after getting an education? Since you very seldom hear of the affects of immigrants leeching off the education system it's really a non issue :).
That is because parents pay for their children, I am pretty sure I don't know any 11 year olds capable of funding their education and pretty sure you do not either.
That is because they are born in the United Kingdom, their home nation is the United Kingdom where their family has paid taxes thoughout and contributed to the United Kingdom. The only case I am arguing for is those who are not planning to stay should not be allowed or be entitled to free education, that is why i'd impose a 5-year waiting time in which they have to live and contribute to the United Kingdom, before recieving anything back in return.
HotelUser
08-10-2009, 11:10 AM
That is because parents pay for their children, I am pretty sure I don't know any 11 year olds capable of funding their education and pretty sure you do not either.
That is because they are born in the United Kingdom, their home nation is the United Kingdom where their family has paid taxes thoughout and contributed to the United Kingdom. The only case I am arguing for is those who are not planning to stay should not be allowed or be entitled to free education, that is why i'd impose a 5-year waiting time in which they have to live and contribute to the United Kingdom, before recieving anything back in return.
Even after they've just gone through the hassle of beginning a citizen of England, we should still treat them like a foreigner, say even though we thought they were genuine enough people to accept in our society we're still going to make them pay for obvious freebies like education? We should make all immigrants pay education fees because 0.05% of them are trying to "steal" education? Seems pretty unfair to that other 99.95%:P
When that immigrant's been in England they're already holding down a job and paying taxes as they're here. Meaning the small fraction of the ones "stealing education" would:
1. Probably already have payed of their child's education fees while paying the various taxes as their child was being educated.
2. When they leave the country they couldn't just take everything they had with them (when they decide to go from a country with a functional government and economic system back to their home country which couldn't even provide a reasonable education, so its probably filled with poverty and other problems), so a lot of their possessions, house/apartment possible car, their job, would be left behind and put back into your economy for other people to take advantage of and profit from.
FlyingJesus
08-10-2009, 11:14 AM
Hey everybody check me out, I don't pay taxes (other than road tax) but I'm getting my uni education for free. I'm less useful to the country than most immigrants, even some of the illegal ones as they at least attempt to get a job and do a service from time to time while I work a meagre 16 hour week and spend the rest of my time eating, drinking and playing football. I'm the biggest waste of natural intellect I've ever known but hey, at least I'm English huh
Inseriousity.
08-10-2009, 03:14 PM
If parents are paying taxes then I don't see why not. Although I've never heard of immigrants coming for the education? In my less-than-expert view, it's the parents looking for the work (if the whole family comes over) although this excludes international students for university though :)
Ajthedragon
08-10-2009, 04:39 PM
they should all **** off back to their own country and stop taking ours for granted.. not being racist or anything but it's beyond a joke now
Totally Agree :rolleyes:
Alkaz
08-10-2009, 04:46 PM
I think its pretty clear; just turn the question around; would any other country allow foreign students to study there for free? - no.
Well said, its totally wrong. Go to their countries and your are entitles to NOTHING, you break you back in their country, oh its going to cost £20k to have it put right, sorry. They break your back here... well that’s different, have it on the house as well as complimentary benefits, free home, food, clothes, phones + you can stay as long as you like!
This country is a total joke, sort the own education and health systems out before you go letting in thousands of people who aren’t entitled each year.
ifuseekamy
08-10-2009, 06:06 PM
Well said, its totally wrong. Go to their countries and your are entitles to NOTHING, you break you back in their country, oh its going to cost £20k to have it put right, sorry. They break your back here... well that’s different, have it on the house as well as complimentary benefits, free home, food, clothes, phones + you can stay as long as you like!
This country is a total joke, sort the own education and health systems out before you go letting in thousands of people who aren’t entitled each year.
Depends where they've come from, most European countries and other socialist countries around the world offer nationalised healthcare. I suspect all first world countries offer free education too.
-:Undertaker:-
08-10-2009, 08:39 PM
Even after they've just gone through the hassle of beginning a citizen of England, we should still treat them like a foreigner, say even though we thought they were genuine enough people to accept in our society we're still going to make them pay for obvious freebies like education? We should make all immigrants pay education fees because 0.05% of them are trying to "steal" education? Seems pretty unfair to that other 99.95%:P
When that immigrant's been in England they're already holding down a job and paying taxes as they're here. Meaning the small fraction of the ones "stealing education" would:
1. Probably already have payed of their child's education fees while paying the various taxes as their child was being educated.
2. When they leave the country they couldn't just take everything they had with them (when they decide to go from a country with a functional government and economic system back to their home country which couldn't even provide a reasonable education, so its probably filled with poverty and other problems), so a lot of their possessions, house/apartment possible car, their job, would be left behind and put back into your economy for other people to take advantage of and profit from.
I do not care quite frankly what it is like back in their home country, we have enough problems of our own to be dealing with thank you very much. If they don't pay taxes, if they dont work, if they dont plan to stay and if we do not need them, then I couldn't give a damn where they go aslong as its not here.
The points I set out earlier on in the thread are common sense, if you dont fit into that criteria then sorry, people here do not want you.
Well said, its totally wrong. Go to their countries and your are entitles to NOTHING, you break you back in their country, oh its going to cost £20k to have it put right, sorry. They break your back here... well that’s different, have it on the house as well as complimentary benefits, free home, food, clothes, phones + you can stay as long as you like!
This country is a total joke, sort the own education and health systems out before you go letting in thousands of people who aren’t entitled each year.
The amazing thing is that some people here actually support unlimited and uncontrolled immigration, despite crime spewing from it, immigration is the issue and it needs controlling.
alexxxxx
08-10-2009, 09:17 PM
you move to france, you get free education, you move to usa/canada i'm sure you get free education.
in some countries there isn't a state-funded education system.
here i'm not sure you get it free, i KNOW international students at my college pay £7k/yr tuition, not totally sure if your family or whatever is setlled in the UK paying tax or whatever.
Who the hell are we to question people's education? That's right, PEOPLE. Like Technologic said, it should be a right not a privilage. If they're in our country then surely we'd do our best to make them have a GOOD education so they can have a GOOD job and contribute to the country, I know that sounds silly (how I put it) but I'd rather have good working, high paid foreign people than lazy ass slums on the street. I'm sorry but to the ignorant people who say that they're stealing jobs, that's just an excuse because they can't be bothered getting off their arse and getting a job themselves, or at least have too bad a record to get accepted for one.
This kinda thing has been around since the Irish moved to Scotland because of the potato blight in 1846 (date wrong?). They were sympathetic at first, but then since the Irish would do the most dirtiest and demotivating jobs for the smallest amount of money (because back in Ireland that amount of money would be a lot) the Scottish started to get angry and annoyed by this. Claiming that they're taking their jobs and they have bad habits etc, just because the Scottish were too proud of themselves to do such jobs. (I am Scottish so let the record show I have nothing against my own country lol, not to mention this was like 100+ years ago).
The minute we start to do things like ban immigrants from having an education is the minute we become inhuman.
-:Undertaker:-
08-10-2009, 09:45 PM
Who the hell are we to question people's education? That's right, PEOPLE. Like Technologic said, it should be a right not a privilage. If they're in our country then surely we'd do our best to make them have a GOOD education so they can have a GOOD job and contribute to the country, I know that sounds silly (how I put it) but I'd rather have good working, high paid foreign people than lazy ass slums on the street. I'm sorry but to the ignorant people who say that they're stealing jobs, that's just an excuse because they can't be bothered getting off their arse and getting a job themselves, or at least have too bad a record to get accepted for one.
This kinda thing has been around since the Irish moved to Scotland because of the potato blight in 1846 (date wrong?). They were sympathetic at first, but then since the Irish would do the most dirtiest and demotivating jobs for the smallest amount of money (because back in Ireland that amount of money would be a lot) the Scottish started to get angry and annoyed by this. Claiming that they're taking their jobs and they have bad habits etc, just because the Scottish were too proud of themselves to do such jobs. (I am Scottish so let the record show I have nothing against my own country lol, not to mention this was like 100+ years ago).
The minute we start to do things like ban immigrants from having an education is the minute we become inhuman.
If we do not need them then we should not educate them, as they should not be here in the first place. We have high unemployment now, and jobs are scare especially in certain areas, so we should only ever allow people we need in.
FlyingJesus
08-10-2009, 09:53 PM
If parents are paying taxes then I don't see why not. Although I've never heard of immigrants coming for the education? In my less-than-expert view, it's the parents looking for the work (if the whole family comes over) although this excludes international students for university though :)
Nahh massive amount of people come over (especially from India I believe) for the education - hence having so many Indian doctors and accountants these days. They're willing to work far harder than most of us to be fair, so why they shouldn't be allowed to learn is beyond me.
Casanova
08-10-2009, 09:54 PM
Your remarks are wrong. Immigrants aren't causing the recession. A "recession" is when the economy is down for two quarters (a quarter being three months). The financial year starts after april 28th i think.
And btw the downfall of our economy to start with was due to the fall of the lehman brother's in america because america wouldn't bung them a few billion. In our economy it was northern rock next to fall. Then it was RBS - at first they stated they had no actual monies left. They had value (ie - they items, accounts etc worth something but had no actual money to keep them afloat overnight).
And I agree to immigrants getting the same education as us. For free. Simply because as an immigrant they are here legally, should pay tax if they earn and they deserve to be treated as a citizen.
Illegal immigrants should be deported, no matter what. Nevermind free education.
Ardemax
09-10-2009, 03:15 PM
im sorry undertaker, but i didn't realise that we shouldn't give immigrants free education if their parents are paying tax, even though, british kids get free education in the same way.
lighten up a bit
it's not all doom and gloom
If we do not need them then we should not educate them, as they should not be here in the first place. We have high unemployment now, and jobs are scare especially in certain areas, so we should only ever allow people we need in.
Lol it's quite unbelievable how ignorant that reply was.
You have Stalin on your signature marked out with a cross yet this attitude ******* reminds me of him...
HotelUser
09-10-2009, 11:43 PM
I do not care quite frankly what it is like back in their home country, we have enough problems of our own to be dealing with thank you very much. If they don't pay taxes, if they dont work, if they dont plan to stay and if we do not need them, then I couldn't give a damn where they go aslong as its not here.
The points I set out earlier on in the thread are common sense, if you dont fit into that criteria then sorry, people here do not want you.
The amazing thing is that some people here actually support unlimited and uncontrolled immigration, despite crime spewing from it, immigration is the issue and it needs controlling.
If you're going to start charging all immigrants for education than you're going to have to start charging everyone else outside of tax for education as well, because people born and raised in England leave the country as well, and there are people born in England who don't hold jobs and pay taxes as well.
If they're not holding a job and don't pay tax than it's the governments own fault for allowing them to become citizens. You can't just become a citizen of England over night, they don't just let anyone in:P. I think this debate might be more focused on who England allows to immigrant.
If we do not need them then we should not educate them, as they should not be here in the first place. We have high unemployment now, and jobs are scare especially in certain areas, so we should only ever allow people we need in.
Are you suggesting that we take away a persons right to live in a stable and more importantly safe country, just because they're not born within a certain area? I could care less if our money was going to help support families to have a better life for themselves. There's a lot worse things our tax money could be spent on.
alexxxxx
10-10-2009, 09:01 AM
If they are legal immigrants, yes, what's the problem? Most immigrants have to have a job because they don't have access to 'public funds' (that doesn't include the NHS, as that is supposedly funded by national insurance).
-:Undertaker:-
10-10-2009, 11:50 AM
im sorry undertaker, but i didn't realise that we shouldn't give immigrants free education if their parents are paying tax, even though, british kids get free education in the same way.
lighten up a bit
it's not all doom and gloom
I have said we should give them free education if they are paying taxes, so stop trying to twist my words. I said those who do not work should not recieve free educatiln.
Learn to read, it'd make a world of difference.
Lol it's quite unbelievable how ignorant that reply was.
You have Stalin on your signature marked out with a cross yet this attitude ******* reminds me of him...
I'm afraid Josef Stalin has nothing do to with immigration so stop trying to demonise me just because I think those who don't have anything to offer to this country should not be here. You are another example of if anybody doesn't agree with mass immigration they are either evil, racist or xenophobic.
Get a grip.
If you're going to start charging all immigrants for education than you're going to have to start charging everyone else outside of tax for education as well, because people born and raised in England leave the country as well, and there are people born in England who don't hold jobs and pay taxes as well.
If they're not holding a job and don't pay tax than it's the governments own fault for allowing them to become citizens. You can't just become a citizen of England over night, they don't just let anyone in:P. I think this debate might be more focused on who England allows to immigrant.
Are you suggesting that we take away a persons right to live in a stable and more importantly safe country, just because they're not born within a certain area? I could care less if our money was going to help support families to have a better life for themselves. There's a lot worse things our tax money could be spent on.
I am suggesting that if we do not need them (meaning if they are criminals or do not work) then we should not have them. There are 150+ other countrys in the world that are far bigger than the United Kingdom, and are far better off in terms of their future outlook. The United Kingdom needs to stop catering for the world and think about its own people, just for once - its not too much to ask.
Call it mean, call it selfish - well yes, because it will affect our children and their children and i'm afraid British people come first in my book.
Undertaker you're attitude towards immigration is disgusting. You're talking about them as if they're ILLEGAL immigrants. I'm calling you a stalinist because of this attitude. You personally disgust me and I think you're immature and naiive. I shall not waste any more of my time on you.
And it's not that you don't agree with me, it's the fact that you're denying anyone who isn't the brightest bulb, the right to live? It's stupid, and it is in some cases racist. I'm not calling you evil I just think you're a bit pathetic and childish. You have a very ignorant view (as i can see) on today's modern studies.
Good day.
-:Undertaker:-
10-10-2009, 12:00 PM
Undertaker you're attitude towards immigration is disgusting. You're talking about them as if they're ILLEGAL immigrants. I'm calling you a stalinist because of this attitude. You personally disgust me and I think you're immature and naiive. I shall not waste any more of my time on you.
And it's not that you don't agree with me, it's the fact that you're denying anyone who isn't the brightest bulb, the right to live? It's stupid, and it is in some cases racist. I'm not calling you evil I just think you're a bit pathetic and childish. You have a very ignorant view (as i can see) on today's modern studies.
Good day.
Actually, I have said that people who will work and who we need and do not have a criminal record are welcome to the United Kingdom.
Josef Stalin has nothing to do with immigration so stop trying to link him to me over immgration, because I know you are playing the demonise card. A lot of people believe what I believe, including the Commonwealth of Austrialia so I would like to know.. is Austrialia stalinist?
Get a grip really, and accept that just because I don't want every tom, richard and harry coming into this country doesn't mean i'm racist, xenophobic or stalinist - it means I have common sense, something you obviously lack. Instead of throwing out random remarks and then running off away from the debate, reply and face what you say.
FlyingJesus
10-10-2009, 12:04 PM
@Lost
I don't agree entirely with Dan but you're making yourself look stupid. He already addressed the issue of legal immigrants doing honest work and paying taxes, and he's not attempting to deny anyone the right to live - just the right to live HERE if they aren't giving anything back.
Essentially the point he's making is being made in the wrong place, as he should be incinuating that the entire welfare system should be shut down for the unemployed (assuming he views all tax sponges the same) but his point is still valid to this argument. We have people here that do nothing ('sup) which can't be entirely helped, but we should at least stop the amount of people coming in who are also doing nothing. Different debate, but needed to be cleared up
nemesis9k
10-10-2009, 03:34 PM
they should all **** off back to their own country and stop taking ours for granted.. not being racist or anything but it's beyond a joke now
I agree with this. It's not racist to say enough is enough (I have many friends of different ethnic backgrounds and I treat people as I find them), the truth is we cant let everyone into this country because there is simply not enough room! Immigration is dragging this country down into the gutter.
just got back from a long break. Didn't expect this to keep on going. Anyone have any more comments on this?
Grippz
14-10-2009, 05:25 PM
the only thing immigrants should get free is the plane back home
Ardemax
14-10-2009, 05:38 PM
I have said we should give them free education if they are paying taxes, so stop trying to twist my words. I said those who do not work should not recieve free educatiln.
did you receive free educatiln aswell?
-:Undertaker:-
14-10-2009, 06:08 PM
did you receive free educatiln aswell?
I did, however my family has lived here for years and I was born here, meaning i'm entitled to it.
Ardemax
15-10-2009, 05:43 AM
exactly... the same right as immigrants have.
-:Undertaker:-
15-10-2009, 02:55 PM
I haven't said they do not deserve it, I merely said that immigrants who plan to come here only for an education, then leave should not be entitled to free education. On the bigger picture, we should only allow immigrants into this country if they are needed in terms of job/skills and whether or not they have a criminal record.
Ardemax
15-10-2009, 04:16 PM
I haven't said they do not deserve it, I merely said that immigrants who plan to come here only for an education, then leave should not be entitled to free education. On the bigger picture, we should only allow immigrants into this country if they are needed in terms of job/skills and whether or not they have a criminal record.
why? because only people like you should get it?
The Professor
15-10-2009, 06:11 PM
If we let them into the country they deserve to get everything we do plus the support required to help them integrate with our country and culture (english lessons etc). I think the debate is more whether we should let them in in the first place!
-:Undertaker:-
15-10-2009, 07:43 PM
why? because only people like you should get it?
..yes, I am British, I was born here and I cannot choose where I was born to live, therefore as a British person it is my right to recieve free education, as the chances are that I would stay in the United Kingdom and contribute in tax my whole life.
alexxxxx
15-10-2009, 09:14 PM
I haven't said they do not deserve it, I merely said that immigrants who plan to come here only for an education, then leave should not be entitled to free education. On the bigger picture, we should only allow immigrants into this country if they are needed in terms of job/skills and whether or not they have a criminal record.
which is what happens.
-:Undertaker:-
15-10-2009, 10:54 PM
which is what happens.
It does not happen as we have criminals and extremists getting into this country. They do not appear out of thin air. We have a unemployment rate which is rising, yet still allow uncontrolled immigration - it defies logic.
Ardemax
16-10-2009, 05:45 AM
so immigrants shouldn't get an education from here, is that what you're saying?
-:Undertaker:-
16-10-2009, 04:41 PM
so immigrants shouldn't get an education from here, is that what you're saying?
I'm saying immigrants should only be entitled to a free education here if they have been in the country for 3 to 5 years, pay taxes and do not have a criminal record.
I'm saying that anyone with a criminal record, or anybody who we do not need (skills wise) should not be in the country, let alone entitled to free education.
Ardemax
16-10-2009, 07:20 PM
for 3 to 5 years?
there education may be over then thus defeating the object lol
Caution
16-10-2009, 08:27 PM
for 3 to 5 years?
there education may be over then thus defeating the object lol
Then they wont get it. Why don't you understand that they shouldn't be educated using public money if they haven't contributed to the country?
Ardemax
17-10-2009, 08:42 AM
Then they wont get it. Why don't you understand that they shouldn't be educated using public money if they haven't contributed to the country?
yeah i agree they should pay taxes etc. but i think as soon as they start paying tax they should get the right for their children to go to school
-:Undertaker:-
17-10-2009, 10:15 AM
for 3 to 5 years?
there education may be over then thus defeating the object lol
..then they simply would not recieve free education then, simple.
Then they wont get it. Why don't you understand that they shouldn't be educated using public money if they haven't contributed to the country?
He does not understand common sense, he seems to think this country has vast sums of money, and that the British taxpayer should pay for the rest of the world (not that is it not doing that now).
yeah i agree they should pay taxes etc. but i think as soon as they start paying tax they should get the right for their children to go to school
..then they jet back off to wherever they orginally came from, thus contributing nothing to this country, leaving this country worse off than when they came here in the first place.
Ardemax
17-10-2009, 05:55 PM
..then they simply would not recieve free education then, simple.
He does not understand common sense, he seems to think this country has vast sums of money, and that the British taxpayer should pay for the rest of the world (not that is it not doing that now).
..then they jet back off to wherever they orginally came from, thus contributing nothing to this country, leaving this country worse off than when they came here in the first place.
you're very prejudice, i have noted.
"he" has a name and i have not said, nor do i think this country has vast sums of money?
:S:S:S:S:S:S
-:Undertaker:-
17-10-2009, 06:03 PM
you're very prejudice, i have noted.
"he" has a name and i have not said, nor do i think this country has vast sums of money?
:S:S:S:S:S:S
If you are aware that this country does not have vast sums of money and is upto its knees in debt, then why do you not agree with me on methods and issues that would save this country money?
alexxxxx
17-10-2009, 06:25 PM
well almost all immigrants need to be able to support themselves when coming here so they in fact don't get free education.
Ardemax
18-10-2009, 12:22 PM
If you are aware that this country does not have vast sums of money and is upto its knees in debt, then why do you not agree with me on methods and issues that would save this country money?
you're not saving money or losing money if they pay tax?
FlyingJesus
18-10-2009, 12:43 PM
yeah i agree they should pay taxes etc. but i think as soon as they start paying tax they should get the right for their children to go to school
They'd still have the right, they'd just have to pay. Most places that people come here from require school fees anyway so if they want to quibble over that then it's obvious they're only here to take advantage.
I'd personally say 2 years of working and paying tax and then free education on the terms that they continue working, as 3-5 is really quite a long time to be paying such amounts and as long as we can be sure that someone's contributing then I have no problem with them being here. Also there's no point making it so expensive that people simply choose not to educate their children, as that's going to do nothing at all for the future of the country
-:Undertaker:-
18-10-2009, 12:52 PM
you're not saving money or losing money if they pay tax?
Why do you not understand the simple thing I am saying.
If we need you and your skills, if you are working and if you are planning on staying in the United Kingdom then you are welcome and can use our education system free of charge after a period of 3 to 5 years.
If you are only planning to stay for a short time to recieve education then you are not welcome as you are a burden on the education system.
If you do not have skills we are in shortage of and do not work then you are not welcome.
Instead of twisting what I say/ignoring parts, actually read what I have said.
Ardemax
18-10-2009, 01:30 PM
ok fine, accepted, but 3-5 years is un-needed
-:Undertaker:-
18-10-2009, 01:59 PM
ok fine, accepted, but 3-5 years is un-needed
It is not, as if they come here only for the education then they then leave at the end of it and end up contributing barely little, if not making this country a loss by coming here and then leaving. The British education system is not for the world to use as it pleases or does not please to.
Ardemax
18-10-2009, 03:38 PM
I haven't said it is
but 3-5 years is a bit much, when they only need around 1-2 years
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