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View Full Version : If Pinocchio said 'My nose is about to grow' what would happen?



Black_Apalachi
04-02-2010, 06:02 AM
This is a serious question. I just saw someone say it on Facebook and I thought it was amazing. Think of it was a philosophical debate ;).

Just to refresh the minds of those who may have been deprived of Disney magic for some time, (:P) Pinocchio is a puppet boy whose nose grows longer whenever he tells a lie. So the question I have is; If Pinocchio said; 'My nose is about to grow', what would happen?

I have some thoughts but I'll just throw the question out there for now and see what you make of it :).

Blinger1
04-02-2010, 07:07 AM
It depends if he just told a lie or was about to tell a lie really.

Black_Apalachi
04-02-2010, 08:40 AM
All he said was 'My nose is about to grow' :).

Blinger1
04-02-2010, 08:47 AM
Mhm and after that? Is he going to lie or not. I guess it also depends on the context.

Black_Apalachi
04-02-2010, 10:21 AM
You don't half twist things! Everything else is irrelevant - once he says the words, my nose is about to grow, what will happen? Will his nose grow or not?

Blinger1
04-02-2010, 10:26 AM
it depends on the situation!! Is he talking to someone at the time or is he just just saying it to himself out loud?

Black_Apalachi
04-02-2010, 10:27 AM
If you think it makes a difference, discuss it either way.

Blinger1
04-02-2010, 10:29 AM
of course it makes a difference. If he is about to tell a lie then it clearly won't grow because he isn't lieing, but if he was not about to lie then it would.

Glitter
04-02-2010, 10:30 AM
what?!!?!
technically it should grow cause he just told a lie because it isn't gonna grow but then if it does grow he was telling the truth therefore it should't have grown and then he'd still be telling a lie so it would have to grow but that would just mess everything up!!

i reckon all the excitement would just set him on fire.

Black_Apalachi
04-02-2010, 10:37 AM
Yay Amber understands the issue! Exactly haha - it has no reason to grow, but by claiming it was about to grow he told a lie. But if it is a lie, it should grow... but if it grows, that makes his original statement a truth! Basically it's a paradox :).

However if you take his statement as a prediction rather than a fact, then you can think of it as a hypothesis. As a hypothesis is scientific, it can't be regarded as a lie. So if you look at it like this, his nose would not grow.

Glitter
04-02-2010, 10:39 AM
he's gonna set on fire and die for causing such an issue.

Black_Apalachi
04-02-2010, 10:43 AM
I'M A REAL BOY! *explode* :L

Technologic
04-02-2010, 01:22 PM
Implosion and black hole.

Nixt
04-02-2010, 01:58 PM
Surely he has know fixed way of knowing if that is or is not going to happen, unless he tells an outright lie. Therefore by saying "my nose is about to grow" his nose will grow, because he doesn't know his nose is going to grow for sure and thus it could be interpreted as a lie.

Eoin
04-02-2010, 02:05 PM
Dudeee, you just like... Totally blew my minddd

AlexOC
04-02-2010, 03:22 PM
His nose would explode and the world would end.

Ardemax
04-02-2010, 03:57 PM
pi would be re-written

AlexOC
04-02-2010, 04:15 PM
pi would be re-written

LMAO! nice theory

jackass
04-02-2010, 04:21 PM
I reckon some serious spontaneous combustion will take place, especially as he is made of wood.

AlexOC
04-02-2010, 04:35 PM
Seriously...

At the time he says my nose is about to grow he dosent know if it will, so hes telling a lie, so it will grow. Simples.

ecstasy
04-02-2010, 04:56 PM
its gonna grow either way

Invent
04-02-2010, 05:41 PM
Seriously...

At the time he says my nose is about to grow he dosent know if it will, so hes telling a lie, so it will grow. Simples.

But then that means he is telling the truth so surely it wouldn't grow?

ecstasy
04-02-2010, 08:57 PM
But then that means he is telling the truth so surely it wouldn't grow?
If he was telling the truth, it means that his nose will grow. The reason why wouldnt be because he was lying, it'd be because of something else.

GommeInc
04-02-2010, 10:18 PM
If he was telling the truth, it means that his nose will grow. The reason why wouldnt be because he was lying, it'd be because of something else.
Does Pinocchio have any control over his nose growing? His nose only grows when he tells a lie, so saying it will grow because he puts forward a theory that his nose is about to grow is not a lie, rather a theory. I kinda agree with Sergio, that maybe it won't grow because it's a hypothesis (to assume it may grow, rather than a stated fact).

dbgtz
04-02-2010, 10:47 PM
It will grow as it wasn't going to grow initially so he lied meaning it grows.

Stryderman
04-02-2010, 10:49 PM
I was gonna reply till i read all the posts and it totally confused the hell out of me

Special
04-02-2010, 10:51 PM
It would grow - it's a lie because he doesn't know that it's about to grow

Black_Apalachi
04-02-2010, 11:05 PM
If he was telling the truth, it means that his nose will grow. The reason why wouldnt be because he was lying, it'd be because of something else.

It can only grow if he tells a lie, and he hasn't said anything else.


Seriously...

At the time he says my nose is about to grow he dosent know if it will, so hes telling a lie, so it will grow. Simples.


It would grow - it's a lie because he doesn't know that it's about to grow


It will grow as it wasn't going to grow initially so he lied meaning it grows.

All above quotes see this:


But then that means he is telling the truth so surely it wouldn't grow?

...exactly but by not growing, it once again becomes a lie!



Does Pinocchio have any control over his nose growing? His nose only grows when he tells a lie, so saying it will grow because he puts forward a theory that his nose is about to grow is not a lie, rather a theory. I kinda agree with Sergio, that maybe it won't grow because it's a hypothesis (to assume it may grow, rather than a stated fact).


Surely he has know fixed way of knowing if that is or is not going to happen, unless he tells an outright lie. Therefore by saying "my nose is about to grow" his nose will grow, because he doesn't know his nose is going to grow for sure and thus it could be interpreted as a lie.

Yeah if you interpret it as an intentional lie rather than an genuine innocent prediction, it is a paradox (like 'what would happen if I went back in time and killed by grandfather?') but if you think of it as a prediction, then you have some grounds to assume his nose will not grow :).

GommeInc
05-02-2010, 12:25 AM
Yeah if you interpret it as an intentional lie rather than an genuine innocent prediction, it is a paradox (like 'what would happen if I went back in time and killed by grandfather?') but if you think of it as a prediction, then you have some grounds to assume his nose will not grow :).
They are really good paradoxes :P The grandfather one may not do anything if you come back to present day just before you leave (assuming only one of you exists in time).

There's three major outcomes from this atleast - either he's telling a lie and it grows regardless of whether or not it is true (because he cannot predict, he will be lying to himself), a circular argument or he's stating a prediction and therefore not being factual :)

AlexOC
05-02-2010, 06:18 PM
It's not a prediction, because he obviously knows when he lies his nose will grow. So he says it will grow, which at that precise time is the truth.

Black_Apalachi
05-02-2010, 09:35 PM
It's not a prediction, because he obviously knows when he lies his nose will grow. So he says it will grow, which at that precise time is the truth.

Yeah but why is it the truth...? :badgrin:

AlexOC
05-02-2010, 09:48 PM
Yeah but why is it the truth...? :badgrin:

Because he knows the consequence of lying is his nose growing, so hes knows by saying it will grow that will be a lie, so he knows it WILL grow so when he says it its a truth.

I DONT KNOW!! OKAY get on xbox

Black_Apalachi
05-02-2010, 10:01 PM
But if it turns out to be true then his nose shouldn't have grown. It can't be false then true, it can only be one or the other.

And I think my brother's just gone to bed so I'll play when I get back from the pub after the footy tomorrow lol.

AlexOC
05-02-2010, 10:03 PM
But if it turns out to be true then his nose shouldn't have grown. It can't be false then true, it can only be one or the other.

And I think my brother's just gone to bed so I'll play when I get back from the pub after the footy tomorrow lol.

You are thinking about things in the future, you need to think what should happen at that split second, its simple really Rob. :)

ok ;) msn then come on!

Black_Apalachi
06-02-2010, 02:43 AM
Lmao that's exactly why I'm saying it can't be both :P Everybody is saying it is a lie but then it's the truth afterwards. I'm saying it can't be both as it's one or the other in a split second. The fact is, it's a never-ending argument.

Stryderman
06-02-2010, 03:08 AM
I dislike this paradox :(

Wig44.
07-02-2010, 12:30 PM
It grows - when he says it's going to grow, he knows full well it isn't, therefore this is a lie. After this, the lie causes his nose to grow. They are two seperate events.

N!ck
07-02-2010, 05:12 PM
There would be an extremely small pause due to the finite speed of light and then his nose would grow.

Tash.
07-02-2010, 07:51 PM
I reckon it'd be very easy to sit on the fence with this, but I aren't going to. So yes, I think his nose would grow. He doesn't know his nose was going to grow unless he knows it's a lie. Therefore he told one and his knows grows.

Black_Apalachi
08-02-2010, 04:06 AM
It grows - when he says it's going to grow, he knows full well it isn't, therefore this is a lie. After this, the lie causes his nose to grow. They are two seperate events.


There would be an extremely small pause due to the finite speed of light and then his nose would grow.


I reckon it'd be very easy to sit on the fence with this, but I aren't going to. So yes, I think his nose would grow. He doesn't know his nose was going to grow unless he knows it's a lie. Therefore he told one and his knows grows.

BUT...


But then that means he is telling the truth so surely it wouldn't grow?

This debate will never stop going round in circles :P I'll close it soon don't worry lol

Stryderman
08-02-2010, 04:07 AM
I really really dislike this thread :(

N!ck
08-02-2010, 09:15 AM
BUT...



This debate will never stop going round in circles :P I'll close it soon don't worry lol

When he finishes saying his nose is about to grow his nose can not instantly know whether or not he was lieing due to speed of light being the limiting factor in the propagation of information. Therefore since his nose will not instantaneously grow as soon as he has finished making his statement his statement was a lie. His nose will grow.

Black_Apalachi
08-02-2010, 10:50 AM
I'm not sure what you mean about the speed of light. Basically there must be a gap between what he says and whether or not his nose grows? Well he does say '..about to..' which suggests it will happen within the next few seconds, not necessarily bag on as he opens his mouth to speak

micky.blue.eyes
14-02-2010, 07:49 PM
It's very simple.
He says his nose is about to grow, but he knows it's not (unless he's drunk). Therefore he's telling a lie, so his nose will grow. Whether it's the truth or not now doesn't matter, it was a lie so his nose grows. But because telling the truth causes his nose to shrink, his nose should shrink after growing.
It ends there. His nose has grown (and shrunk again), it won't grow again because he didn't say "My nose is going to grow 10 times". If he did say how often his nose is going to grow, his nose will grow and shrink that many times, but the friction will cause him to catch fire.

Stryderman
14-02-2010, 08:06 PM
I think this thread should be closed now :(

Black_Apalachi
14-02-2010, 10:14 PM
:eusa_liar:eusa_liar:eusa_liar:eusa_liar:eusa_liar

Oh, I was about to close it but I can't :S

N!ck
14-02-2010, 11:05 PM
:eusa_liar:eusa_liar:eusa_liar:eusa_liar:eusa_liar

Oh, I was about to close it but I can't :S

Click the thread tools dropdown?

Black_Apalachi
14-02-2010, 11:25 PM
Looks like Debates are excluded from VIP thread self-closure :P

Pyroka
14-02-2010, 11:28 PM
he'll blow up and his nose will fall off if he did that. why?

because its a paradox as rob said yknow divide by 0 you get 0 no matter what its the same principle. no really though nothing would change his nose just wouldnt grow since two reactions cancel eachother out

nose science bruva i can do it

oh you already did it sorry i didnt read the thread lol i think i was right though!

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