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Hecktix
18-07-2010, 12:47 PM
Is it right for countries to ban the burqa?
[ENDS 1/08/2010]

The burqa which is a full-face veil worn by some Muslim women has become somewhat of an international controversy, in the sense that citizens of countries which are not predominantly muslim find these veils to oppress women and some even find them intimidating. Countries such as France have actually banned people from wearing burqas for such reasons, however arguments have arisen that such religious views should not be disrespected, it is believed by devout Muslims that a woman should cover herself in public to save her from sexual predators and other men apart from their husband. Recently in Britain, Immigration Minister Damien Green slammed claims that the burqa should be banned in Britain, claiming that preventing people from wearing such garments would be "unbritish" - this is said despite a YouGov poll showing over 60% of Brits calling for the ban of the burqa.

What do you think? Is it right to ban the burqa? Is the burqa banned in your country? Should it be banned in your country?

Hitman
18-07-2010, 01:51 PM
Somebody been looking at my threads! :O :P

Yes I think they should be banned. I've posted in the other threads why, but my main reason is security; anybody could be hiding under one, and in certain places you are required to remove your bike helmets or if you're wearing a balaclava you are not allowed in. The same should apply to burkas or any garment covering a person's face.

GommeInc
18-07-2010, 03:11 PM
Yes, if that country has strong beliefs that go against another country's belief. Many western cultures are equal, so men and women should be treated as equals, so the belief some muslim women have that they must cover themselves from the lustfulness of men, or that they must stick with the one man who can see them without it, goes againstrights and laws about being a possession. However, some muslim women wear the burkha, hijab or "veil" because it's a sign of their faith, and strictly a sign of their faith (there are hundreds of reasons for the burkha) which is fine to an extent. Some countries also have different habits or behaviour, some may find the burkha extremely uncomfortable if they rely on expressions and body language, and seeing as the burkha is designed to cover expressions it can be traumatic for people seeing them as you're not use to not knowing what someone looks like underneath, and what faces they are pulling - smiles, frowns and laughter form some language in some cultures, I believe the French maintain strong eye-to-face contact when talking in some areas of France. The view "you come here and respect our rules" is what makes individual countries. Afterall, if you're escaping from a country, then you must have a reason to escape. If you want the country you're going to be the same as the country you're coming from, why leave? It can't be that important to you wearing garments or jewelry if you're happy to leave the place that's closest to your belief or faith :P

alexxxxx
18-07-2010, 04:00 PM
no because i don't think the state should have any say over what people wear. It's none of their business.

However i believe that private businesses and government offices should be able to choose whether or not to ask people wearing a veil covering their FACE (and face only) when they come into the building due to security and ID requirements.

Also strict laws should come in against men who make women wear clothes like this.

Mathew
18-07-2010, 09:17 PM
My immediate response is yes - it's covering your face and it's a security risk. But then it becomes a question of where you draw the line and then whether balaclavas should be banned too. I think it's absolutely stupid that you can be driving down a road and see someone fully covered - you don't know what they are like or who they are. If it goes through that burquas are allowed, then it's just advertising a whole new way of hiding oneself.

Honestly, the UK Government is too scared of people calling them racist to ban this. The only balls they have is Ed and that's a waste of space too. The UK is trying so hard to be equal to everyone that they will eventually fall on their backs and end up being racist to themselves. Pathetic.

If burqas were banned in buildings (very much like smoking) then it would be getting there. But how would it be if you were mugged by someone wearing one in the street? Would you be so quick to say "they're ok to cover their face" then?

alexxxxx
18-07-2010, 09:18 PM
My immediate response is yes - it's covering your face and it's a security risk. But then it becomes a question of where you draw the line and then whether balaclavas should be banned too. I think it's absolutely stupid that you can be driving down a road and see someone fully covered - you don't know what they are like or who they are. If it goes through that burquas are allowed, then it's just advertising a whole new way of hiding oneself.

Honestly, the UK Government is too scared of people calling them racist to ban this. The only balls they have is Ed and that's a waste of space too. The UK is trying so hard to be equal to everyone that they will eventually fall on their backs and end up being racist to themselves. Pathetic.

there's no 'if' about it - they are allowed now.

Mathew
18-07-2010, 09:20 PM
there's no 'if' about it - they are allowed now.

Oh it's finally gone through. Thanks.
I edited my above post.

Caution
18-07-2010, 09:30 PM
I'm on black skin, had to highlight to see that. But, yes, you don't know who's under it, and the UK clearly doesn't want it. It should be banned, if they don't like it they can go back to where they come from, where they can wear it.

Alkaz
18-07-2010, 10:00 PM
Yes. I hate the fact how in our own country a lot of the time people are asked not to wear crosses around there neck (there was a big thing about it a year or so ago in the news) but it is perfectly fine for others to wear their religious clothing and the burqa etc as no one wants to say anything encase it offends them but when the shoes on the other foot then the Christians are in the wrong.

I also remember a while ago, a Muslim person working on the checkout in a super market refused to serve a woman as he saw her wearing a cross around her neck and it was against his religious beliefs. The woman made a bit of a fuss at how disgusting it was and she had to be escorted out and I am sure she was threatened that if she didn't leave then the police would be called. If that was the other way around, she would probably have lost her job.

RedStratocas
18-07-2010, 10:12 PM
nope, violation of rights. i mean obviously it should have the same security restrictions as hoodies, helmets if necessary, but i dont see why it should be treated differently than other clothing. people keep saying "you dont know whats under there," well... yeah? but you do realize that 80% of our bodies are covered in public in regular circumstances, you could say that about someone in even the most casual clothing.

alexxxxx
18-07-2010, 10:23 PM
nope, violation of rights. i mean obviously it should have the same security restrictions as hoodies, helmets if necessary, but i dont see why it should be treated differently than other clothing. people keep saying "you dont know whats under there," well... yeah? but you do realize that 80% of our bodies are covered in public in regular circumstances, you could say that about someone in even the most casual clothing.
this is exactly how i feel.

and i swear i haven't seen your username round here in a long time. :)

Luke
19-07-2010, 04:48 PM
My light response, but for Britain's perspective, I say that if you live here, you go by our way of life. I believe if we went to their original country and dressed 'British', we'd be ATLEAST persecuted. Not sure how to explain this but to shorten it - don't like it, get out. Was it one of the 7/7 bombers who walked past a police station with one of these Burkas on laughing? In terms of security, they should be banned asap. You're not allowed to wear motocycle helmets or other items which fully cover your face anymore, so why should Burkas be allowed.

I think it should be the British public who decide, not the government..

Swastika
19-07-2010, 04:58 PM
I personally like knowing and seeing who's walking towards me, i don't particularly feel comfortable when im walking near somebody with a Burqa on.
I think the French did the right thing in banning the Burqa, it does nothing good for the country and its a huge security risk.

I mean, look at this photo:
http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/a.jpg

Without sounding racist, i don't know who or even what's under that burqa, there could be a bomb or a man or anything.
I know you can conceal bombs with normal clothing but the burqa is very baggy and in my opinion a very good piece of clothing for a suicide bomber, because it hides your identity and nobody dares ask a muslim woman to remove one and the fact that its usually black. It would be very hard to identify a possible bomb or weapon underneath one.
Not to mention they are intimidating and symbolise the male dominance in Islamic countries.

-:Undertaker:-
19-07-2010, 05:08 PM
The terrorist threat is very small if not non-existent, which is why i've been arguing for a long time for a relaxation of the stupid and ridiculous laws in airports and everywhere. We have had terrorist laws and legislation used as an excuse to spy on families by councils - the same goes on in the United States with the hated US Patriot Act that Bush pushed through and what Obama has not repealed.

The ideal situation in my book would be to treat all attacks/discrimination the same - within the existing laws against violence and so on. That would mean 'homophobia' or 'racism' would not be reconisged in courts as a seperate charge, they would be classed as any other crime be it violence or any other crimes. The same goes for the burqa - treat it the same as hoodies and so forth, meaning in airports you have to remove them and that private companies/state companies can ask you to remove them should they see it fit.

Hitman
19-07-2010, 05:20 PM
nope, violation of rights. i mean obviously it should have the same security restrictions as hoodies, helmets if necessary, but i dont see why it should be treated differently than other clothing. people keep saying "you dont know whats under there," well... yeah? but you do realize that 80% of our bodies are covered in public in regular circumstances, you could say that about someone in even the most casual clothing.
But we can see the people's face - we can identify them instantly. With a burka you cannot. It is common sense to put security before clothing 'rights' - and we're not singling out burkas, if there was a ban on the burka then there should also be a ban on balaclavas and any other garment that covers your face (expect for bike helmets when on a bike).

ziziziz
19-07-2010, 05:40 PM
It should be banned in England, i know theyve annouced they will not ban it but by doing this in my opinion is in a way advertising it, wrong doers will know now that the burqa is "acceptable" and will not be asked to remove them thus meaning they can do their activities under them whatever it may be, terrorism to a shop theft or a mugging whatever.
I'm not racist and i accept other cultures but i do feel its a security risk, im not going to say "they should go to their own country then they can wear it" but i would say it is England and tbh we should not be scared of being labelled "racist" its not. We need our own rules and the people wearing burqas must abide by them, look at Dubai, youre not allowed to kiss your loved one in public, if you do you face the risk of prison.

alexxxxx
19-07-2010, 06:06 PM
But we can see the people's face - we can identify them instantly. With a burka you cannot. It is common sense to put security before clothing 'rights' - and we're not singling out burkas, if there was a ban on the burka then there should also be a ban on balaclavas and any other garment that covers your face (expect for bike helmets when on a bike).

is it common sense though? you are giving away rights to the government telling you what you can and cannot do. what would you say if they started to ban styles of music because of the threat of violence associated with it (ie rap/grime)? then films? then journals? newspapers, because they report things that would 'de-stabalise' the country? the web to do with 'protecting the country'?

Jordy
19-07-2010, 06:49 PM
no because i don't think the state should have any say over what people wear. It's none of their business.

However i believe that private businesses and government offices should be able to choose whether or not to ask people wearing a veil covering their FACE (and face only) when they come into the building due to security and ID requirements.

Also strict laws should come in against men who make women wear clothes like this.I am also of this view, it comes down to basic freedom which so many of you in this thread bang on about constantly yet you're against people wearing whatever they like. Airports, any businesses and workplaces should be able to ban the burqa for whatever reason they wish, whether it's security or simply because it makes people feel uncomfortable. People should be able to walk down the street wearing them though, much like you can with a helmet or balaclava.

Britain is a successful multi-cultural society and just because our views differ with theirs does not mean we should force our Western views and equality on to them, if they wish to stick to their beliefs that's fine with me. I don't think they should inflict their views on us and neither should we on them.

-:Undertaker:-
19-07-2010, 07:31 PM
I am also of this view, it comes down to basic freedom which so many of you in this thread bang on about constantly yet you're against people wearing whatever they like. Airports, any businesses and workplaces should be able to ban the burqa for whatever reason they wish, whether it's security or simply because it makes people feel uncomfortable. People should be able to walk down the street wearing them though, much like you can with a helmet or balaclava.

Britain is a successful multi-cultural society and just because our views differ with theirs does not mean we should force our Western views and equality on to them, if they wish to stick to their beliefs that's fine with me. I don't think they should inflict their views on us and neither should we on them.

Britain is not a successful multi-cultural country anymore - we now have racial ghettos with people who cannot even speak the mother tongue of this country. The entire thing is a sham and its PC speak to pretend otherwise that everything is fine and dandy. If immigration continues as it is now we will have racial riots within the next few decades and Enoch will be proved right as what happened in France.

To ask a bigger question, who ever gave permission for this 'multi-cultural project'?

The burqa should not be banned provided all 'anti-discrimination' laws are dropped also - either everything comes under the same law or it does not, that includes the burqa issue. To force somebody against their will to do something I am sure is enshrined within English law somewhere and that would be the right way to go about it. The same applies (as I said above) to discrimination laws - if you attack somebody for no reason you should be tried under the same circumstances that if you attacked somebody because they are gay.

Jordy
19-07-2010, 07:39 PM
Britain is not a successful multi-cultural country anymore - we now have racial ghettos with people who cannot even speak the mother tongue of this country. The entire thing is a sham and its PC speak to pretend otherwise that everything is fine and dandy. If immigration continues as it is now we will have racial riots within the next few decades and Enoch will be proved right as what happened in France.

To ask a bigger question, who ever gave permission for this 'multi-cultural project'?

The burqa should not be banned provided all 'anti-discrimination' laws are dropped also - either everything comes under the same law or it does not, that includes the burqa issue. To force somebody against their will to do something I am sure is enshrined within English law somewhere and that would be the right way to go about it. The same applies (as I said above) to discrimination laws - if you attack somebody for no reason you should be tried under the same circumstances that if you attacked somebody because they are gay.The multi-cultural project pretty much spanned out of encouraged migration from the Commonwealth and the West Indies after World War II. It is still a successful multi-cultural society, Enoch spoke of mass riots etc and there has so far only been one in Bradford and a few tussles in Birmingham in that 3 or 4 decades. Enoch is wrong. You vastly exaggerate the ghetto and language barrier, it may well be a sign of things to come but it is not a problem at the moment.

But in principal I do agree with you on anti-discrimination laws, personally I think people should be able to wear what they like down the street and businesses are entitled to ban things providing they do it fairly, for example if they ban burqas they must also ban helmets, balaclavas etc.

alexxxxx
19-07-2010, 07:47 PM
Britain is not a successful multi-cultural country anymore - we now have racial ghettos with people who cannot even speak the mother tongue of this country. The entire thing is a sham and its PC speak to pretend otherwise that everything is fine and dandy. If immigration continues as it is now we will have racial riots within the next few decades and Enoch will be proved right as what happened in France.
I think this must affect a very small minority of areas. Where I live there are some areas with more asians or black people living there than the average, generally the poorer areas, but it isn't like if youre white you'll get stabbed or harassed going there. In france the riots are not riots between races but were against the police or in protest of discrimination - most riots are against the police or the establishment because of frankly the dreadful areas and poverty they live in.

-:Undertaker:-
19-07-2010, 07:49 PM
The multi-cultural project pretty much spanned out of encouraged migration from the Commonwealth and the West Indies after World War II. It is still a successful multi-cultural society, Enoch spoke of mass riots etc and there has so far only been one in Bradford and a few tussles in Birmingham in that 3 or 4 decades. Enoch is wrong. You vastly exaggerate the ghetto and language barrier, it may well be a sign of things to come but it is not a problem at the moment.

But in principal I do agree with you on anti-discrimination laws, personally I think people should be able to wear what they like down the street and businesses are entitled to ban things providing they do it fairly, for example if they ban burqas they must also ban helmets, balaclavas etc.

It worked back then. Those people loved Great Britain and settled amongst the people - not in small secular groups as it occuring now in the modern day. Enoch Powell warned of racial ghettos and growing resentment amongst the white poor working class, well now you can see that in various areas where people belong to groups of each nationality/colour and in some areas (such as Southhall). We have all read the stories of teachers who cannot even teach anymore because their school now has kids who all speak differing languages.

It is not a problem at the moment no, and he warned it would become as you admit yourself. So why are we (or more so our politicians) waiting for it to happen?

Camy
19-07-2010, 08:01 PM
My immediate response is yes - it's covering your face and it's a security risk. But then it becomes a question of where you draw the line and then whether balaclavas should be banned too. I think it's absolutely stupid that you can be driving down a road and see someone fully covered - you don't know what they are like or who they are. If it goes through that burquas are allowed, then it's just advertising a whole new way of hiding oneself.

Honestly, the UK Government is too scared of people calling them racist to ban this. The only balls they have is Ed and that's a waste of space too. The UK is trying so hard to be equal to everyone that they will eventually fall on their backs and end up being racist to themselves. Pathetic.

If burqas were banned in buildings (very much like smoking) then it would be getting there. But how would it be if you were mugged by someone wearing one in the street? Would you be so quick to say "they're ok to cover their face" then?

I agree with most of what you have to say, but @ the bit in bold: when do you ever see anyone wearing a balaclava? I've literally never seen anyone wearing one in my entire life, I've only ever seen burqas.

I think that they should be banned for several reasons:

-Security.
It's just common sense really, if any type of crime occurs involving someone wearing a burqa, it will be next to impossible to identify them.
-Oppression of women.
It's a symbol of the oppression of women is it not? Forgive me if I'm wrong on this point, but it's what I was lead to believe, and I also was lead to believe that women and men were meant to be equal in British society, so therefore its got to go.
-Multiculturalism.
In my opinion, it just doesn't work. It's too hard trying to cater for each different religion or race, and when you start giving exceptions to one group or the other it's just going to fall to pieces.
Everyone else has to keep their face uncovered, so should Muslim women, and if they aren't happy with it, they can go home?
Britain is mainly a Christian country, so anyone who wants to live here, should live by our laws and regulations. If they aren't happy with it, they should go somewhere else.

alexxxxx
19-07-2010, 08:03 PM
It worked back then. Those people loved Great Britain and settled amongst the people - not in small secular groups as it occuring now in the modern day. Enoch Powell warned of racial ghettos and growing resentment amongst the white poor working class, well now you can see that in various areas where people belong to groups of each nationality/colour and in some areas (such as Southhall). We have all read the stories of teachers who cannot even teach anymore because their school now has kids who all speak differing languages.

It is not a problem at the moment no, and he warned it would become as you admit yourself. So why are we (or more so our politicians) waiting for it to happen?

you can't force different races to live where you want them to live (although singapore does this to get a 'healthy mix'). all the 'problem' areas are where old industries were (and where people from the commonwealth were brought in the 50s/60s to work there - real open door immigration) and no other fairly low-skilled industries replaced them when they closed in the 70s and 80s. in france the riots are with white people too and thats whats happened in the past in britain too.

Samantha
19-07-2010, 08:03 PM
My response is no.
There should be NO dress code implimented on a whole country.
It's just like from a few weeks/months before which I read that this girl was banished from the School trip because she wouldnt dress like a muslim. Why should she dress differently to suit another countries dress sense and rules. The Burka shouldnt be banned as everyone should have a right to what they wear.

Hitman
19-07-2010, 08:41 PM
is it common sense though? you are giving away rights to the government telling you what you can and cannot do. what would you say if they started to ban styles of music because of the threat of violence associated with it (ie rap/grime)? then films? then journals? newspapers, because they report things that would 'de-stabalise' the country? the web to do with 'protecting the country'?
Yes, it is common sense. The Government does that anyway, we are not truly free, there are loads of restrictions on what we can do - and with good reason too. Banning music is difficult - how would you enforce it? You really couldn't. You can enforce the banning of the burka. I do not doubt for a moment that the Government, or security/intelligence services restrict sensitive data from getting out... the world isn't as nice and friendly as it may seem. I guess it depends where and how you were bought up to realise this.

RedStratocas
19-07-2010, 08:46 PM
and i swear i haven't seen your username round here in a long time. :)

well there was like a 6 month gap of me not posting anything last year lol but ive been back for a little bit i still dont post too much though. ive had a terrible throat infection for the past week so ive just been in bed so i think ive been posting more recently haha.


But we can see the people's face - we can identify them instantly. With a burka you cannot. It is common sense to put security before clothing 'rights' - and we're not singling out burkas, if there was a ban on the burka then there should also be a ban on balaclavas and any other garment that covers your face (expect for bike helmets when on a bike).

sorry for quoting an american but he said it best:


Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither

i still dont understand the "we can see people's faces" argument. whats that even matter? if you're a complete stranger to the person, what difference does it make whether or not you can see what their face looks like? if you think about it, if someone in a burqa were to mug someone, they'd be much easier to catch than someone who dresses more normally, since theyd stick out like a sore thumb. like i was saying, with security issues, OBVIOUSLY they should abide by the same laws as other pieces of clothing, but someone walking down the street in a burqa is their human right and doesnt pose any more of a security risk than someone in jeans and a t-shirt.

Hitman
19-07-2010, 08:53 PM
well there was like a 6 month gap of me not posting anything last year lol but ive been back for a little bit i still dont post too much though. ive had a terrible throat infection for the past week so ive just been in bed so i think ive been posting more recently haha.



sorry for quoting an american but he said it best:



i still dont understand the "we can see people's faces" argument. whats that even matter? if you're a complete stranger to the person, what difference does it make whether or not you can see what their face looks like? if you think about it, if someone in a burqa were to mug someone, they'd be much easier to catch than someone who dresses more normally, since theyd stick out like a sore thumb. like i was saying, with security issues, OBVIOUSLY they should abide by the same laws as other pieces of clothing, but someone walking down the street in a burqa is their human right and doesnt pose any more of a security risk than someone in jeans and a t-shirt.
In that instance it'd be easier to find them, however you should see where I live. There are many people here wearing burkas... they are not so uncommon here and thus would be harder to find. I mean, sure they'd be easy to find in a crowd full of people dressing normally, but in a crowd of people where there are also other burka wearers then it's not so easy. Secondly, you probably didn't hear about it but some man dressed in a burka and tried to enter a jewellers. The owners buzzed him in, afterall he was a religious woman in a burka, right? Not so, as soon as he opened the door a load of men (in balaclavas I believe) barged in and ransacked the place. Then there's the extremist who tried to blow himself up, failed and tried to escape by wearing a burka as somebody mentioned before.

We all abide by laws and restrictions on what we can do, so none of us are truly free - and if we were truly free would we enjoy it? We'd be allowed to beat the **** out of somebody for no good reason, we could rape and murder without consequences... I think I'll stick to what we have now, thanks.

alexxxxx
19-07-2010, 09:19 PM
Yes, it is common sense. The Government does that anyway, we are not truly free, there are loads of restrictions on what we can do - and with good reason too. Banning music is difficult - how would you enforce it? You really couldn't. You can enforce the banning of the burka. I do not doubt for a moment that the Government, or security/intelligence services restrict sensitive data from getting out... the world isn't as nice and friendly as it may seem. I guess it depends where and how you were bought up to realise this.

because my parents don't influence stupid ideas on me about how they think 'society' should be, or about immigrants and i've been able to make up my own view on the world without any sort of influence. my parents have only ever spoken about politics to me since i was 18. they don't buy newspapers apart from on sundays - where they get the fairly centrist times (compared to other papers).

it's true that we aren't as "free" as we could be, but you think more taking away civil liberties is a good way of going about it which is some twisted thinking in my book.

Hitman
19-07-2010, 09:28 PM
because my parents don't influence stupid ideas on me about how they think 'society' should be, or about immigrants and i've been able to make up my own view on the world without any sort of influence. my parents have only ever spoken about politics to me since i was 18. they don't buy newspapers apart from on sundays - where they get the fairly centrist times (compared to other papers).

it's true that we aren't as "free" as we could be, but you think more taking away civil liberties is a good way of going about it which is some twisted thinking in my book.
Neither do mine, what I meant by that is if you're in a place where there's no crime or no foreigners then you will have a very different view or opinion to somebody who has.

Providing they make us safer yes. If it's for no reason then no, it's pointless but I've stated the reason and in my book it should be banned - and the majority agree.

Anywho I am no longer participating, not that it matters because there's not a huge amount more to debate. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

RedStratocas
19-07-2010, 09:35 PM
In that instance it'd be easier to find them, however you should see where I live. There are many people here wearing burkas... they are not so uncommon here and thus would be harder to find. I mean, sure they'd be easy to find in a crowd full of people dressing normally, but in a crowd of people where there are also other burka wearers then it's not so easy. Secondly, you probably didn't hear about it but some man dressed in a burka and tried to enter a jewellers. The owners buzzed him in, afterall he was a religious woman in a burka, right? Not so, as soon as he opened the door a load of men (in balaclavas I believe) barged in and ransacked the place. Then there's the extremist who tried to blow himself up, failed and tried to escape by wearing a burka as somebody mentioned before.

We all abide by laws and restrictions on what we can do, so none of us are truly free - and if we were truly free would we enjoy it? We'd be allowed to beat the **** out of somebody for no good reason, we could rape and murder without consequences... I think I'll stick to what we have now, thanks.

there have been multiple stories in the united states of men dressing as women who rob banks/convenience stores. do you think we've banned wigs? again, this is just picking out a very particular aspect of something and ignoring everything else. the jewelers story you just mentioned: why would they have not let him in for being a man? i dont really get it. but ignoring that, a man in a burqa is able to gain entrance, and his cronies are able to smash the place up and get away with it; and the detail you find shocking is the burqa? why isnt the first thing you think "hey, maybe more police should patrol this area" or "maybe if there was a better security system for the store"? the burqa is to blame?

and if you're really comparing allowing religious headgear with rape and murder you're off your rocker.

GommeInc
19-07-2010, 09:45 PM
I think we're focusing too heavily on western cultures or multi-national cultures. I think some countries have the right to ban them if it totally contradicts their values, beliefs and habits. Seeing as England, America, the Netherlands and so forth have been pretty open for a long time, it's too late if not pointless for them to attempt as an outright ban as we're all pretty different here so we accept (to some extent) and live and let live.

I wish I knew a small country that would be completely shocked as an example, but I can't think of any :S Infact, I think the dutch may have some sort of ban on them, as they take the opposite end, they feel everyone is equal to an extent so a burkha which discriminates against women is against the country's view on themselves and their lives, but I'm not entirely 100% on that. Obviously culture found in tribes would be completely against it, where facial expressions make up the language.

Superior
19-07-2010, 10:41 PM
They are hideous lol. At least if you saw someone wearing a balaclava you know straight away to avoid them. But when it is someone with a burqa you have to walk past them being 50/50 unsure of them, you are likely to take the risk of walking past them because you don't want to appear rude or make it obvious by crossing the road but when doing so you have to keep reasuring yourself that it is just some pakistani or w/e in her religious outfit. I mean if covering your face is not enough, wearing massive robe things that completely hide the shape and size of your body is just taking it to the next level, you could carry a machine gun inside them robes and nobody would think twice.

Here is one for ya, just your average pakistani family taking some family photos (lol pretty pointless I know) and then all of a sudden they all pull out loads of guns. They have been able to walk right into somewhere whether it be a bank or an airport without raising any suspicions.

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/niqabgroupphoto.jpg

If burqas do get banned and we arrest people who wear them then there is nothing unfair about that because if you go to somewhere like Dubai you will be arrested and put in prison for kissing your wife in public. It is just human nature to know who the person you are looking at is. Dogs recognise other dogs by smelling them, if you took away a dogs ability to do that which is just what burqas are doing then the dog isn't going to be happy, just like the majority of britain isn't happy. I have never actually had to have a conversation with someone wearing a burqa but if I did I would just ignore them.

RedStratocas
19-07-2010, 10:50 PM
In that instance it'd be easier to find them, however you should see where I live. There are many people here wearing burkas... they are not so uncommon here and thus would be harder to find. I mean, sure they'd be easy to find in a crowd full of people dressing normally, but in a crowd of people where there are also other burka wearers then it's not so easy. Secondly, you probably didn't hear about it but some man dressed in a burka and tried to enter a jewellers. The owners buzzed him in, afterall he was a religious woman in a burka, right? Not so, as soon as he opened the door a load of men (in balaclavas I believe) barged in and ransacked the place. Then there's the extremist who tried to blow himself up, failed and tried to escape by wearing a burka as somebody mentioned before.

We all abide by laws and restrictions on what we can do, so none of us are truly free - and if we were truly free would we enjoy it? We'd be allowed to beat the **** out of somebody for no good reason, we could rape and murder without consequences... I think I'll stick to what we have now, thanks.

there have been numerous instances in the u.s. of men dressed in womens clothing robbing places. did we ban wigs? this is just picking out a very specific but innocuous detail. like the story you just mentioned about a man in a burqa and the jewelry store; why isnt your first thought "that part of town should have more police patrol" or "that store should have better security and safety systems"? why go straight to blaming the burqa? its just a minor detail in a case that has several more obvious instances of concern.

and if youre really comparing allowing burqas with allowing rape and murder youre off your rocker.

it all comes down to what you stand for. liberty isnt about being safe. after 9/11 the united states government could have banned flying, and it technically would have saved all the lives of people who have died on airplanes since (theres obviously more to it than that but this is just a short example). since a few trouble makers took advantage of the system and were able to cause mayhem, that means no one, even completely innocent people, can use those means ever again, right? thats the same logic in the argument of banning the burqa on a larger scale. while banning the burqa would hardly cause a change in my day, i would much much much prefer to live in a country that doesnt tell me what i can or cannot wear, even if that means that (somehow) im more at risk. this ties in to my benjamin franklin quote from earlier.


They are hideous lol. At least if you saw someone wearing a balaclava you know straight away to avoid them. But when it is someone with a burqa you have to walk past them being 50/50 unsure of them, you are likely to take the risk of walking past them because you don't want to appear rude or make it obvious by crossing the road but when doing so you have to keep reasuring yourself that it is just some pakistani or w/e in her religious outfit. I mean if covering your face is not enough, wearing massive robe things that completely hide the shape and size of your body is just taking it to the next level, you could carry a machine gun inside them robes and nobody would think twice.

Here is one for ya, just your average pakistani family taking some family photos (lol pretty pointless I know) and then all of a sudden they all pull out loads of guns. They have been able to walk right into somewhere whether it be a bank or an airport without raising any suspicions.

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/niqabgroupphoto.jpg

If burqas do get banned and we arrest people who wear them then there is nothing unfair about that because if you go to somewhere like Dubai you will be arrested and put in prison for kissing your wife in public. It is just human nature to know who the person you are looking at is. Dogs recognise other dogs by smelling them, if you took away a dogs ability to do that which is just what burqas are doing then the dog isn't going to be happy, just like the majority of britain isn't happy. I have never actually had to have a conversation with someone wearing a burqa but if I did I would just ignore them.

and heres one for you. this is a picture of mc hammer:
http://www.scene-stealers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/mc-hammer.jpg

his baggy pants could be holding anything! a bomb, machine guns, poison gas, who knows! we should ban him and his parachute pants, right?

alexxxxx
19-07-2010, 11:03 PM
there have been numerous instances in the u.s. of men dressed in womens clothing robbing places. did we ban wigs? this is just picking out a very specific but innocuous detail. like the story you just mentioned about a man in a burqa and the jewelry store; why isnt your first thought "that part of town should have more police patrol" or "that store should have better security and safety systems"? why go straight to blaming the burqa? its just a minor detail in a case that has several more obvious instances of concern.

and if youre really comparing allowing burqas with allowing rape and murder youre off your rocker.

it all comes down to what you stand for. liberty isnt about being safe. after 9/11 the united states government could have banned flying, and it technically would have saved all the lives of people who have died on airplanes since (theres obviously more to it than that but this is just a short example). since a few trouble makers took advantage of the system and were able to cause mayhem, that means no one, even completely innocent people, can use those means ever again, right? thats the same logic in the argument of banning the burqa on a larger scale. while banning the burqa would hardly cause a change in my day, i would much much much prefer to live in a country that doesnt tell me what i can or cannot wear, even if that means that (somehow) im more at risk. this ties in to my benjamin franklin quote from earlier.



and heres one for you. this is a picture of mc hammer:
http://www.scene-stealers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/mc-hammer.jpg

his baggy pants could be holding anything! a bomb, machine guns, poison gas, who knows! we should ban him and his parachute pants, right?

thank god we have some common sense recently. i feel like ive been mad with my rational thoughts.

Superior
19-07-2010, 11:13 PM
and heres one for you. this is a picture of mc hammer:
http://www.scene-stealers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/mc-hammer.jpg

his baggy pants could be holding anything! a bomb, machine guns, poison gas, who knows! we should ban him and his parachute pants, right?

You know... I never really thought about that but you are absolutely right! I shall now avoid MC hammer parachute pants wearers with caution, cheers bud you might have just saved my life.

Creeper
19-07-2010, 11:46 PM
This issue for me can be summed up in one word: sticky. For some people wearing the burqa's is a sign of them conforming to their religion, but (and I'm not too sure if it does or doesn't before I say it,) does the Qur'an specify that they have burqa? According to Gavin Hewitt from the BBC and in his article ''Banning the Burqa'' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/07/banning_the_burqa.html) he says that 70% of the public in France are for the banning of the burqa or niqab in public.

I've always found it slightly intimidating when I've seen people wearing them, I'm completely tolerant of them wearing it if they feel it shows that they are fully committed to their religion but do they have to wear it all the time? If a ban such as the one which has already passed through the lower part of the French parliament and looks sure to become law comes over to the UK, it'll be a lot more harder to push through I believe. The multi-culture and multi-ethnicity that we have in the UK has become so ingrained in our culture and indeed in our communities that I think it would be difficult to even begin the process of banning it and rolling out the fine which is what will happen to those who decide not to follow the French law should it become law.

I think it comes down to two things: identity and choice. We're a westernised society that believes in freedom of speech and the right to ''wear'' what we wish. Gavin Hewitt continues in his blog post (URL posted above,) that in France, Francois Fillon the French prime minister says that the reason they are pushing this is that the people who wear burqa's are '
'hijacking Islam' and provoking a
' dark and sectarian image,'' in the sense that those who are born/emigrate to France are embracing the French national identity.

Which is what exactly? Apart from the traditional stereotypes that they all smell of garlic, wear black and white shirts and eat French bread, can anyone actually specify what the French identity is exactly? If you tried, you'd be infringing on freedom of speech and the freedom to be whoever you like; something which we as a westernised world are so adamant to enforce. Banning burqa's for me would be a infringement of a person's individual identity and would stop them expressing themselves so easily. Hell, if we did this, whose to say that those women who are forced to wear them by their husbands wouldn't just stay at home permanently? Forget trying to fine them, it could lead to segregation; something which would be ironic considering France's push for a overall ''one'' identity.

Link to Gavin Hewitt's report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/07/banning_the_burqa.html

-:Undertaker:-
20-07-2010, 02:00 AM
you can't force different races to live where you want them to live (although singapore does this to get a 'healthy mix'). all the 'problem' areas are where old industries were (and where people from the commonwealth were brought in the 50s/60s to work there - real open door immigration) and no other fairly low-skilled industries replaced them when they closed in the 70s and 80s. in france the riots are with white people too and thats whats happened in the past in britain too.

No I agree you cannot, but a lot of this stems from the type of people coming into this country. The earlier communities from the post-war immigration were Christian and hold values dear to this country, more to the point they actually had respect and a desire to fit in to this country and its way of life. You just described immigration back then as 'open-door' immigration, but its not its the opposite. Back then we accepted people we needed to manage the factories as you say yourself and back then we still had control of our borders of who could and could not enter this country.

Nowadays we have a system which is out of control both from Europe (regarding the European Union and Eastern Europe) and immigration rules in general which are incredibly lax. We also have an open-door asylum policy despite the fact asylum is supposed to be sought in the first safe country you travel across. To enter this country you should be able to speak the mother tongue (English), have a job we require, be of a certain age and you should only have access to the welfare state after a period of 10 years of working.

All people want is some form of control, looking around in Alton Towers the other week - it actually scares me how out of scale the problem has become, and this is up north we are talking about here. I feel that a ban on the burka is perhaps too far for my ideal world but would be appropiate in the present situation. If immigration were to be handled properly and managed properly then I believe many would not wear the burka, as they would be the ones out of place in their neighbourhoods - not the other way around as is the case today.


because my parents don't influence stupid ideas on me about how they think 'society' should be, or about immigrants and i've been able to make up my own view on the world without any sort of influence. my parents have only ever spoken about politics to me since i was 18. they don't buy newspapers apart from on sundays - where they get the fairly centrist times (compared to other papers).

it's true that we aren't as "free" as we could be, but you think more taking away civil liberties is a good way of going about it which is some twisted thinking in my book.

Concerning civil liberties, you seem pretty sound with the idea that British subjects are now accountable to foreign courts rather than British courts? not to mention the fact the European Union has signed various deals with the United States (another foreign body) to share our details.. oh and then there is always the European Arrest Warrant which has eroded our centuries old legal system and the idea of Heabeas corpus (innocent until proven guilty). Civil liberties are not there to pick and choose from.

alexxxxx
20-07-2010, 10:17 AM
No I agree you cannot, but a lot of this stems from the type of people coming into this country. The earlier communities from the post-war immigration were Christian and hold values dear to this country, more to the point they actually had respect and a desire to fit in to this country and its way of life. You just described immigration back then as 'open-door' immigration, but its not its the opposite. Back then we accepted people we needed to manage the factories as you say yourself and back then we still had control of our borders of who could and could not enter this country.

Nowadays we have a system which is out of control both from Europe (regarding the European Union and Eastern Europe) and immigration rules in general which are incredibly lax. We also have an open-door asylum policy despite the fact asylum is supposed to be sought in the first safe country you travel across. To enter this country you should be able to speak the mother tongue (English), have a job we require, be of a certain age and you should only have access to the welfare state after a period of 10 years of working.

Asylum seekers often come in planes you know. ALL the people you see at callais are ALL illegal immigrants because they have not applied for asylum in france.


All people want is some form of control, looking around in Alton Towers the other week - it actually scares me how out of scale the problem has become, and this is up north we are talking about here. I feel that a ban on the burka is perhaps too far for my ideal world but would be appropiate in the present situation. If immigration were to be handled properly and managed properly then I believe many would not wear the burka, as they would be the ones out of place in their neighbourhoods - not the other way around as is the case today.

Alton Towers is in the midlands ;) Are you scared that people are not white? is that an issue for you?


Concerning civil liberties, you seem pretty sound with the idea that British subjects are now accountable to foreign courts rather than British courts? not to mention the fact the European Union has signed various deals with the United States (another foreign body) to share our details.. oh and then there is always the European Arrest Warrant which has eroded our centuries old legal system and the idea of Heabeas corpus (innocent until proven guilty). Civil liberties are not there to pick and choose from.
[/QUOTE]
I'm glad that we have joined a bloc that makes sure it rules protecting civil liberties in respect to privacy, data protection and data handling - ALL which the UK government seem very reluctant to abide by AND i like the CoE's human rights laws and the like that we have here now too. I don't feel that being subject to european and 'FORIN' courts really are against my civil liberties.

BeanEgg
20-07-2010, 10:48 AM
I believe it should banned, firstly the burka is not a compulsory piece of clothing in Islam, research tells me that a simple hijab is enough yet some Muslims go over the top. - People can see this as intimidating, and I can see why.

However, we have accepted these people to come to our country, the UK. A multi-cultural society. A place of freedom.
We are over in Afghanistan where most women do wear the Burka, and they also happen to live in the UK. It doesn't exactly make sense to ban it if we're there; it would cause more problems.

Creeper
20-07-2010, 11:20 AM
I believe it should banned, firstly the burka is not a compulsory piece of clothing in Islam, research tells me that a simple hijab is enough yet some Muslims go over the top. - People can see this as intimidating, and I can see why.

However, we have accepted these people to come to our country, the UK. A multi-cultural society. A place of freedom.
We are over in Afghanistan where most women do wear the Burka, and they also happen to live in the UK. It doesn't exactly make sense to ban it if we're there; it would cause more problems.

It's true it's not a compulsory piece of clothing in Islam, but you've just admitted that we ''accept'' people coming into the UK, which is indeed a multi-cultural society and a place where freedom is for everyone, so why are you going to ban something outright such as the burqa; something which they do indeed wear in the Middle East as a sign of their ''freedom,'' from the UK if we're so liberal as you've described?



All people want is some form of control, looking around in Alton Towers the other week - it actually scares me how out of scale the problem has become, and this is up north we are talking about here. I feel that a ban on the burka is perhaps too far for my ideal world but would be appropiate in the present situation. If immigration were to be handled properly and managed properly then I believe many would not wear the burka, as they would be the ones out of place in their neighbourhoods - not the other way around as is the case today.

People want control of who they see, hear about, associate with and it is slightly intimidating seeing women wearing the burqa's all the time. Just the other week in Bradford a post office was robbed by a man wearing the burqa; the problem with it is that it covers the entire face. I think a partial ban, where it's not allowed in public places would be a lot more effective and indeed give control back to the people as to what is acceptable in their societies. I don't think immigration is a problem in this issue; people immigrate, not their religion and their own individual religious beliefs or in this case, the full burqa.

-:Undertaker:-
20-07-2010, 02:35 PM
Asylum seekers often come in planes you know. ALL the people you see at callais are ALL illegal immigrants because they have not applied for asylum in france.

If they come in planes then they are coming here for one thing only; the welfare state. Britain is surrounded by the wonderful European Union which you have just shown below how great it is with its human rights and so forth, so why do they not stop off at the Czech Republic? France? Germany? Italy? if the EU is so great for all of these things, why are they bypassing it?


Alton Towers is in the midlands ;) Are you scared that people are not white? is that an issue for you?

Is it an issue for me when we have areas that are minority white areas? yes.
Does that show that 'multi-culturalism' is not working? yes.
With that in mind, does Powell stand a good chance of being proved correct? he damn well does.
Does that worry me? yes it does.
Do I think immigration should be balanced settling, not colonialistic? yes.

Do not try and tar me with the racial brush.


I'm glad that we have joined a bloc that makes sure it rules protecting civil liberties in respect to privacy, data protection and data handling - ALL which the UK government seem very reluctant to abide by AND i like the CoE's human rights laws and the like that we have here now too. I don't feel that being subject to european and 'FORIN' courts really are against my civil liberties.

Who voted for the UK government? the British people.
Who voted for the European Union and its Courts to even exist? the British people didn't.

To be subject to foreign courts is the erosion of civil liberties and habeas corpus, the idea that you are innocent until proven guilty and that you are subject to the Queen and her courts rather than foreign courts. To add to that, I count voting and democracy as a civil liberty which you surely do not, because time and time again you ignore that these insitutions have no democratic right to exist and you go on pretending that you somehow care about civil liberties.

Like most of the left, it only applies to certain things you find in your favour - nevermind everybody else.

Technologic
22-07-2010, 05:19 PM
People shouldn't be allowed to drive in them....can see for ****

coopera11
22-07-2010, 10:32 PM
I find it wrrong that the burqa is banned by any country, this is the modern world and in this world we should be accepting cultural differences and being diversifiied and imbrase how they want to live and dress.
We should not push them away for a minority that has caused all this hate, but imbrase them and welcome them with open and loving arms we do not have to be the best of friends but get on and not push what they wear in there culture to an illigel peace of clothing.

Lets say someone else from a different religion went to live in a different country and and that person got banned from wearing what they wear how would they feel and how would they treat and think of that country for pushing there religous thoughts, beliefs and doings to the side.

It is wrong and always will be wrong.If the world wants to move forward in such an already diversified planet they have to understand and embrace this or just not be diversified at all!

Eckuii
22-07-2010, 10:41 PM
In this country a woman or anybody in this country has to unveil their face in order to board a plane or for any other security reasons. I dont see a reason that the Burka should be banned. The only reason I would support a ban is for these areas.

However, what should be banned is the disgraceful husbands who force women to wear these clothes. To me, this is a type of domestic abuse to be controlled in such a way.

coopera11
22-07-2010, 10:46 PM
However, what should be banned is the disgraceful husbands who force women to wear these clothes. To me, this is a type of domestic abuse to be controlled in such a way.

I completely agree with this, no woman should be forced to wear it nore have to wear it all the time.

But still have the right to wear it where they want to and when they want to for there religious views, they have there views and we should not be forcing them to think nore dress differently due to it.

abdellah123
24-07-2010, 07:47 PM
It's all about the country's constitutionel rights. If the country has a law protecting them, then no can do..I know that here in Canada some laws give us the rights to practise our own religion, so now the big problem the government is facing is there own law!
Well if you ask me, it backfired, but as for Public Safety and National Safety, I say it's the countrys job to chose whats right.. or just place security men in every entrance of every single building :>

HotelUser
25-07-2010, 04:35 AM
I completely agree with this, no woman should be forced to wear it nore have to wear it all the time.

But still have the right to wear it where they want to and when they want to for there religious views, they have there views and we should not be forcing them to think nore dress differently due to it.

This is a main factor as to why I believe they should be banned. The basis of gender inequality is closely intertwined with stupid cultural icons such as the burqa.

Banning them is not undermining its supporter's human rights as much as not banning them undermines the human rights of others, through security risks and through modern support of an element which represents gender inequality.

Repair
25-07-2010, 11:09 AM
My instant reaction was yes. Anybody or anything could be hiding under them. Its like walking into a bank with a mask on, most peoples reactions are "Oh, its a robber" so why should they be allowed to wear there masks when other people can't. A wanted criminal could be hidden under one right now, walking streets without anybody giving him/her a second look. And for another reason it intimidates me so much, you never know if there looking at you, or what there looking it. It could be used as an aid of stealing, you could just slide it under your Islamic Burga. So yes, it should be banned. And that's the end of it

louder
25-07-2010, 11:41 PM
it's simple really. hoodies are banned in some places, football tops are banned in some places, trainers are banned in some places, crash helmets are banned in most places. the reason for this is because people can find it intimidating or provokative(sp). i don't think there is anybody who could argue against burkas being as intimidating as a crash helmet or a hoody in a situation like a corner shop.

i'm not saying they should be banned all together, but i think there needs to be compromise. we have to with our 'unacceptable' clothing, so there's no reason that muslims can't obey either.

i fear myself sounding like my nan with my next statement, but i kinda see where she's coming from when she says it. she just don't have to be so racist. 8-)
if they're moving here for what ever reason at all, then they should have to follow our rules, rather than trying to change them.
i am aware that britain is and always has been made up of loads of different cultures. in fact, hardly anything that we consider british originates from britain. but, there are rules in certain places, and teenagers with hoodies, motorcyclists or football fans haven't kicked up a fuss about, so i don't see why an immigrant, or even somebody who's parents immigrated, should be allowed to. in all fairness it's more our country than it is theirs, and we've been kind enough to 'let them in'.

i'm just worried that the people who can do something about these small problems are too scared to say anything in case they get called racist or whatever. but i think somebody needs to, because it's going to get slightly out of hand.

Tash.
27-07-2010, 05:01 PM
No they should not be banned. To me, if you are going to restrict someone's choice in clothing in this way under the premise that you have concerns over the security aspect then you have to ban hoodies. I can't see that happening somehow.

I understand the need for someone's face to be seen in situations such as in an airport and the likes but really in other situations I can't see how you could feel anymore intimidated by a burqa than a chav in a hoodie hiding their face for no other reason than they're up to no good. I for one would be more scared of the hooded youth.

I don't buy into this whole 'equality' argument either. If a woman chooses to wear a burqa because she genuinely believes that her religion requires it then so be it. As long as she cooperates in removing it from her face in situations where identification is needed then thats fine with me. If on the other hand she is being forced to wear it because of some oppression then thats a whole other issue. The wearing of burqas should not be banned just in case someones rights are infringed by it being allowed in this country, thats absurd.

Having said the above, I do believe a person should be allowed to request it to be removed if they have genuine concerns, not just because they don't like it. For example, if like I said earlier the persons identity needs to be ascertained for some reason.

louder
29-07-2010, 12:29 AM
another thing, is everyone's relating britain.
that wasn't the question.
the question was, is it right for countries to ban the islamic burqa. not britain.

& the reason that some countries have banned it, is because we used it against them.
we put our soldiers in burqas, so that they can be completely undetected by the enemy.

so, yeah, i think it's right to ban it in that case.

Apple
29-07-2010, 12:48 PM
Well unfortunately people who wear burqas are in a minority so if the majority do not like them for whatever reasons then it should be banned.

RedStratocas
29-07-2010, 04:04 PM
Well unfortunately people who wear burqas are in a minority so if the majority do not like them for whatever reasons then it should be banned.

this is unfortunately very flawed logic. im sure the large majority of people hate the mullet (http://ispymullet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/redneck-mullet-no-shirt-leaning-on-truck.jpg) haircut, but to ban it would be absurd. if we all had to follow the rules of majority, we'd be identical zombies with no rights to express ourselves.


And for another reason it intimidates me so much, you never know if there looking at you, or what there looking it. It could be used as an aid of stealing, you could just slide it under your Islamic Burga.

so i take it as you're for banning sunglasses as well, since you cant see what people are looking at with them either. you're probably also for banning baggy jeans, winter coats, and oversized shirts, since those can be used to steal too, right?


if they're moving here for what ever reason at all, then they should have to follow our rules, rather than trying to change them.

but you're completely distorting the situation. it's not them coming here and trying to change the rules, its YOU trying to change the rules because of them coming here. there has been no rule banning the burqa, they arent trying to "change the rules," they want to continue living their lives with the rules that are already in place. it's YOU whos trying to change the rules because of THEM, not the other way around. this argument that they're trying to change your laws is just absurd and makes no sense because it's obvious that's not how it is.

Apple
30-07-2010, 09:04 PM
this is unfortunately very flawed logic. im sure the large majority of people hate the mullet (http://ispymullet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/redneck-mullet-no-shirt-leaning-on-truck.jpg) haircut, but to ban it would be absurd. if we all had to follow the rules of majority, we'd be identical zombies with no rights to express ourselves.



so i take it as you're for banning sunglasses as well, since you cant see what people are looking at with them either. you're probably also for banning baggy jeans, winter coats, and oversized shirts, since those can be used to steal too, right?



but you're completely distorting the situation. it's not them coming here and trying to change the rules, its YOU trying to change the rules because of them coming here. there has been no rule banning the burqa, they arent trying to "change the rules," they want to continue living their lives with the rules that are already in place. it's YOU whos trying to change the rules because of THEM, not the other way around. this argument that they're trying to change your laws is just absurd and makes no sense because it's obvious that's not how it is.

What I was trying to say is because they are such a tiny minority and a massive percentage of britain thinks they should be banned for good reasons, who is the government going to listen to?

Maze
30-07-2010, 09:41 PM
My stance: I think that the burqa IS oppressive to women. However, it should not be banned, as it does not threaten their well-being, and, in many cases, the women choose to wear it.

louder
30-07-2010, 10:37 PM
[COLOR=DarkRed]but you're completely distorting the situation. it's not them coming here and trying to change the rules, its YOU trying to change the rules because of them coming here. there has been no rule banning the burqa, they arent trying to "change the rules," they want to continue living their lives with the rules that are already in place. it's YOU whos trying to change the rules because of THEM, not the other way around. this argument that they're trying to change your laws is just absurd and makes no sense because it's obvious that's not how it is.

i never mentioned laws. and i was saying that the burqa should not be banned in britain.
if you re-read my post, i mention how corner shops & supermarkets have rules against hoodies & motorcycle helmets. we have to remove them before we enter. for the same reasons that we have to remove these, people wearing a burqa should have to remove it from their face.
so it's nothing to do with me distorting the situation. i'm saying they should follow the rules that we all have to. i'm not saying let's put laws in place. 8-)

Apple
31-07-2010, 05:09 PM
i never mentioned laws. and i was saying that the burqa should not be banned in britain.
if you re-read my post, i mention how corner shops & supermarkets have rules against hoodies & motorcycle helmets. we have to remove them before we enter. for the same reasons that we have to remove these, people wearing a burqa should have to remove it from their face.
so it's nothing to do with me distorting the situation. i'm saying they should follow the rules that we all have to. i'm not saying let's put laws in place. 8-)
I completely agree with this. If they want to be treated equal then they should also follow equal rules.

Has anyone seen what a small child's reaction is to someone wearing a burqa, they can sometimes get pretty freaked out!

Jamiie
01-08-2010, 12:41 PM
i never mentioned laws. and i was saying that the burqa should not be banned in britain.
if you re-read my post, i mention how corner shops & supermarkets have rules against hoodies & motorcycle helmets. we have to remove them before we enter. for the same reasons that we have to remove these, people wearing a burqa should have to remove it from their face.
so it's nothing to do with me distorting the situation. i'm saying they should follow the rules that we all have to. i'm not saying let's put laws in place. 8-)


I completely agree with this. If they want to be treated equal then they should also follow equal rules.

Has anyone seen what a small child's reaction is to someone wearing a burqa, they can sometimes get pretty freaked out!

i Agree with both of You its like i go into college with my hood up and you can clearly see my face
But yet someone comes in with a Burqa and you can't see nothing that could anyone i think
Atleast if its not banned make them follow what we have to do,
i Like to call the Burqa a letterbox because that is litterly all you can see which is nothing!

RedStratocas
01-08-2010, 01:28 PM
What I was trying to say is because they are such a tiny minority and a massive percentage of britain thinks they should be banned for good reasons, who is the government going to listen to?

the government is going to do what they always have, doing what they think is logical, fair, and right. the way a democratic republic works is that we choose our leaders by majority rules, and assume responsibility to them to choose whats right. sometimes "the majority" is wrong on the issues, and the government can recognize that. if we had a full democracy where citizens voted on absolutely every issue, then we wouldn't have leaders representing us. democracy with representatives works to prevent things like burqa-banning from happening. if the government worked where the majority of the population always got their way, a representative democracy would be pointless.


i never mentioned laws. and i was saying that the burqa should not be banned in britain.
if you re-read my post, i mention how corner shops & supermarkets have rules against hoodies & motorcycle helmets. we have to remove them before we enter. for the same reasons that we have to remove these, people wearing a burqa should have to remove it from their face.
so it's nothing to do with me distorting the situation. i'm saying they should follow the rules that we all have to. i'm not saying let's put laws in place. 8-)

my b :O i agree with this i mustve read it too fast lol.

HotelUser
02-08-2010, 04:12 AM
the government is going to do what they always have, doing what they think is logical, fair, and right. the way a democratic republic works is that we choose our leaders by majority rules, and assume responsibility to them to choose whats right. sometimes "the majority" is wrong on the issues, and the government can recognize that. if we had a full democracy where citizens voted on absolutely every issue, then we wouldn't have leaders representing us. democracy with representatives works to prevent things like burqa-banning from happening. if the government worked where the majority of the population always got their way, a representative democracy would be pointless.



my b :O i agree with this i mustve read it too fast lol.


I agree with you about how a hierarchy style of governing proves best to assure the best interest of the nation--not the popular vote--is always pursued.

However when it comes to the Burqa banning I'm inclined to disagree. Due to the cultural representation of the Burqa I think it should be banned. In recognition of morals our society has discovered over the past half century the Burqa in comparison the sort of ethics in which we wish to influence is simply appalling.

On what's more of a layman's terms note, I don't care to which religion or culture you belong, in my opinion the fact that they're still following through with keeping up their sexist triggered ideology in form of the Burqa and through other aspects of their every day lives is stupid.

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