Should the UK be disbanded? [ENDS 26/09/2010]

[Cosmic]

Should the UK be disbanded?
Ends 26/09/2010

We all know that the United Kingdom (UK) is made up of four countries. These being Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The union was brought about by (as to my knowledge) acts of political union and royal inheritance.

On with the debate. This week I'd like to see your opinions on whether the UK should and indeed could be split back into its component countries? With the media covering some calls for Scottish independence, do you agree with this? In my opinion this would be interesting to witness, however I'm sure that it could cause many problems.

Debate away!

[AgnesIO]

Personally I think we should be, and become true members of Europe. For example, we should use the euro. Either that or we should leave Europe and stay as the UK.

I don't see any HARM is being the UK, but really, what does it mean today?

[-Nick]

Yes I think they do the govement should be on hold !!! They don't do there jobs... All they think is money money money !!!

[AgnesIO]

Yes I think they do the govement should be on hold !!! They don't do there jobs... All they think is money money money !!!

What has that got to do with anything? :P

Edited by Narnat, (Trialist Forum Moderator): Please do not post off-topic, Thanks.

[Oleh]

I think we should leave europe full stop.

From what i gather we have to abide by what laws they set us (not that ours are much to go by)
Pay them £40m a day membership fee (easily go to reforming banks n stuff)

[Cosmic]

As much as I love Europe, the debate is actually about the UK. :P

[Sarah]

Yes and no, I think that it would be amazing if we could all become our own countries but have a special relationship with the different countries. However, if some parts of the UK were split up could they actually even afford to run their own countries? Scotland is a nice country but lets face it the oil is running out up there and Wales already has one of the highest poverty rates in the UK. As much as I think we should for cultural reasons I just don't think it would be possible.
I think the only reason why people want to be their own country is because its hard to figure out the different cultures of the UK so by being your own country you can identify yourselves more.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Personally I think we should be, and become true members of Europe. For example, we should use the euro. Either that or we should leave Europe and stay as the UK.

I don't see any HARM is being the UK, but really, what does it mean today?

Why on earth would you wish to join a currency that is on the ropes and was a failure from the word go? more to the point, why would you want to hand over your pound sterling to an unelected and unaccountable foreign body - because as is with common sense; whoever controls the currency controls the money, and whoever controls the money controls the country. I really do not see the logic in that, often most people want to change for the sake of changing - even if it means doing what is the complete opposite to common sense.

The United Kingdom debate anyway, the United Kingdom is a artificial nation that has only lasted this long because the nations which combined to make the Kingdom were all very similar in geographical closeness, cultural links and language links - along with historical links. The process of this state falling apart has been rapidly brought about by the last Labour government and continued by the jokingly named 'Conservative & Unionist Party'. The act of devolution has made it fairly possible for the United Kingdom to end in our lifetime - although considering the economical side that may not be such a bad thing afterall which i'll come onto now.

The United Kingdom at the moment is unfairly funded - England generates the vast proportion of wealth and it is unfairly sent to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland with their vast public sectors. If England were to seperate from the United Kingdom and the European Union - England and Switzerland would most likely be the most prosperous nations in Europe and in the Western World. There is a solution though and a way the United Kingdom could survive although the trauma of puilling funding from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland would most likely pull it apart instantly; you desginate these areas as low tax havens as Singapore did to pull in private business. I count myself as British and would like to retain the United Kingdom, but it must be fair.

Of course not much of this matters anyway because if people do not start waking up soon, we will soon find ourselves a mere province of a federal Europe.


I think we should leave europe full stop.

From what i gather we have to abide by what laws they set us (not that ours are much to go by)
Pay them £40m a day membership fee (easily go to reforming banks n stuff)

Around that yeah, but remember it's rising to something like £60m a day very soon at a time when our Conservative government is cutting schools, social services and raising taxes - so we can pay for more of something that we do not even want. To add to that, EU regulation is estimated to cost business in the UK £100bn+ every year.

[Pyroka]

Yes and no, I think that it would be amazing if we could all become our own countries but have a special relationship with the different countries. However, if some parts of the UK were split up could they actually even afford to run their own countries? Scotland is a nice country but lets face it the oil is running out up there and Wales already has one of the highest poverty rates in the UK. As much as I think we should for cultural reasons I just don't think it would be possible.
I think the only reason why people want to be their own country is because its hard to figure out the different cultures of the UK so by being your own country you can identify yourselves more.

This. It's the only reason I can see that sensible Scottish people will never abandon the UK. In terms of patriotism and the situation right now, I don't blame Scotland one bit for wanting to seperate (I was talking to my Scottish flatmate about this last night before/after we watched Braveheart :P). But yeah, the history between the two are bad, but nowadays Scotland & England will never actually go to war lol. The problem with everything is that when international peeps say the UK, the English, London & bad teeth (lol) are the first things that pop into their heads. Oh and The Beatles. Everyone knows that, its one of those conclusions that people shouldn't jump to, but do.

Anyway going off on a tangent a bit there, Wales couldn't sustain itself as a country in my opinion. It's a principality, not a country like Scotland & England, plus the amount of money each person earns in Wales compared to the rest of the country, well it's less. The economy there is smaller, its only boost was their industrial era but now thats fading away. Scotland are going to go just the same way, and it's a shame really. Wales would hang onto England & Scotland would probably be like mates with Northern Ireland... if there ever was a split. I'm bad at tangenting ughh, so yeah like Scotland can't sustain itself cuz the oil they have only lasts so long, and that is really the money maker for them. So uhm, I'd love it to be disbanded, but at the same time it's bad for the country overall.

[AgnesIO]

Dan my reason for us using the euro is it would help my family hugely ;)

We all know some people on here HATE europe.. not naming anyone..

[Phil]

Some people are suggesting that they disband from Europe and stay as the UK just not a part of the EU. This cannot be done! For example, because UK is a part of the EU they are allowed to use the Irish Sea for dumping their nuclear waste and the Atlantic Ocean for fishing. There are many more reasons they cannot disband from the EU.

Some people are also saying that the UK should disband and use Euro. The Euro is not doing very well at all at the moment but the UK might be able to help that but to be honest not that much. Also, UK are very proud of their currency and I can't see them giving it up for a currency that is economically failing. It would be nice to see the UK disband but it doesn't make much of a difference, not to me anyway! I think it would quite odd if it were to happen to be quite honest.

[Pyroka]

May I ask why everyone is talking about bloody Europe?

We're talking about the United Kingdom, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland & England separating. NOT THEM ALL SEPARATING FROM EUROPE.

YOU DIP****S.

[GommeInc]

It would make many people happy, but that doesn't mean it'll work. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are too small to support themselves. England has the economy, industry, growth and population to support itself, but Scotland hasn't got the land to grow into, the economy to sustain itself and alot of the population travels across the border for work and many of those who stay are traditionalists which will only really serve tourism. It would work if money and trade was no object, like in the past, but it can't as these are fundamental principles for a country to sustain itself in the modern day world. Same applies for Wales and Northern Ireland may merge in with Ireland, which would cause a bit of upset :P


May I ask why everyone is talking about bloody Europe?

We're talking about the United Kingdom, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland & England separating. NOT THEM ALL SEPARATING FROM EUROPE.

YOU DIP****S.
Don't get angry dear :'( *hugs*

[Bun]

for god's sake dan stop bringing europe into everything! we know you're passionate about it and that's fine - you're entitled to your views, but it seems like you're constantly trying to win people over by bringing our membership of the EU into every debate possible.

and onto this debate, well i think it's very hard to draw the line at how independent each country should be. in my personal opinion i think the current devolved system is probably the best way to go about it, with the scottish parliament and the london & welsh & n.ireland assemblies, but the UK parliament still holding sovereignty. it can be quite frustrating to put up with all the 'scottish independence' crap when let's be honest, they wouldn't last 5 minutes by themselves? i'm not jumping on my english high horse here but as someone rightly said, the tax is distributed unfairly and their oil is ticking away. but then there's the question on how far they should take it, there was a local referendum whether to have a north eastern assembly (lol i know...) and it was voted down. however i do sometimes feel for scotland, wales and northern ireland because when people think of the UK they immediately start thinking england.

[-:Undertaker:-]

for god's sake dan stop bringing europe into everything! we know you're passionate about it and that's fine - you're entitled to your views, but it seems like you're constantly trying to win people over by bringing our membership of the EU into every debate possible.

and onto this debate, well i think it's very hard to draw the line at how independent each country should be. in my personal opinion i think the current devolved system is probably the best way to go about it, with the scottish parliament and the london & welsh & n.ireland assemblies, but the UK parliament still holding sovereignty. it can be quite frustrating to put up with all the 'scottish independence' crap when let's be honest, they wouldn't last 5 minutes by themselves? i'm not jumping on my english high horse here but as someone rightly said, the tax is distributed unfairly and their oil is ticking away. but then there's the question on how far they should take it, there was a local referendum whether to have a north eastern assembly (lol i know...) and it was voted down. however i do sometimes feel for scotland, wales and northern ireland because when people think of the UK they immediately start thinking england.

Oh good lord, yet another one who blames me for bringing Europe into the thread when if you look back you can see it was Milestone not -:Undertaker:- who brought it up. Is that clear enough now for yourself and anyone else or do I need to link to the post which brought up the EU (and it was not my post) to clarify it?

In terms of the United Kingdom itself, the examples of the European Union, Belgium, the United Kingdom, Yugoslavia and the USSR are all related because they are not natural countries - hence why we are talking now of the UK possibly breaking up, you would never have that debate with the likes of England, Scotland or Wales because they are historic countries with a strong identity.


It would make many people happy, but that doesn't mean it'll work. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are too small to support themselves. England has the economy, industry, growth and population to support itself, but Scotland hasn't got the land to grow into, the economy to sustain itself and alot of the population travels across the border for work and many of those who stay are traditionalists which will only really serve tourism. It would work if money and trade was no object, like in the past, but it can't as these are fundamental principles for a country to sustain itself in the modern day world. Same applies for Wales and Northern Ireland may merge in with Ireland, which would cause a bit of upset

Small nations can support themselves but at first it would be incredibly hard to work it out - the public sector in those nations (Scotland and Wales) would virtually have to be abolished and they would have to have incredibly low tax rates to encourage business and investment to their shores - Singapore (pop. 5 million) and Switzerland (pop. 7 million) are just two examples of how very small nations with hardly any natural resources can make it to the top to become hubs of investment. I guess you could also include Hong Kong under its British colony status as another example of amazing success (with a pop. of around 7 million).

[Bun]

Oh good lord, yet another one who blames me for bringing Europe into the thread when if you look back you can see it was Milestone not -:Undertaker:- who brought it up.
You're right, and for that I apologise, sorry. You're not right about it though ;) :P.