Do you think you choose your sexual orientation?

[A]

Do you think gay people choose to be gay? Do you think straight people choose to be straight?

do not give a yes or no blunt answer u boring people.

[-:Undertaker:-]

No you don't choose it but it is entirely your choice whether or not you act upon it and often people confuse the two.

[Kyle]

There are both biological and social influences but the choice is ultimately down to the individual.


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[Brad]

I think there's a deeper meaning to why someone chooses to be gay. Whether it be from past experience, or from personal desire. All cases that I've heard (and yes this does change from person to person) all had traumatic experiences as a child/young teenager that was resulted in the decision to do so.
Personally, no matter what a person's sexual orientation may be - they are just humans. Just like everyone else.

[Kyle]

I think there's a deeper meaning to why someone chooses to be gay. Whether it be from past experience, or from personal desire. All cases that I've heard (and yes this does change from person to person) all had traumatic experiences as a child/young teenager that was resulted in the decision to do so.

What kind of trauma


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[Brad]

What kind of trauma


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Traumas that may include sexual or physical abuse. It could possibly stem from parental neglect as well. Those types of traumas.

[Empired]

I think probably a very small amount of people are born definitely gay or straight. But like I said it's likely to be a really small amount of people, like just occasionally a genius or a natural dancer is born. But most people have to choose to work hard to be smart/amazing at dancing just like most people make choices throughout their life that will influence their sexuality.
I don't remember making a conscious decision to work hard at school, it was the decisions I made (and the decisions I was encouraged to make by adults around me) to value education. It's probably the same with sexuality: you don't wake up and think "I am suddenly straight", but there might be a day- it might take a lot longer- when you realise that you are gay and have been for some time.

I don't really know that much about it particularly as I'm unsure of my sexuality myself. But at the end of the day I don't really think it matters. IMO I can change my mind about my sexuality at any point I like throughout my life if I realise I want to.

[buttons]

no i didn't choose my sexuality. if i look back, i know i fancied girls when i was already too young to know that it wasn't "normal" or to know what sexuality was.

there's evidence for genetic predispositions, environmental influences, a combination between the two, prenatal stress and hormones.

if you ask a gay person they will most likely say no. unless they're political lesbians, who choose to date women only, despite being attracted to males. choosing to date only one gender is different to actual attraction. i don't think you can force it but then again i don't know what it's like to be only attracted to one gender.

but really @bikini (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=119486); you've heard people say "i went through ____, so i chose to be gay"?

if a woman told me she'd chosen to be bisexual/lesbian or a man told me he'd chosen to be bisexual/straight then i wouldn't want to date them. afterall, the woman could choose to be straight the next month, or the man choose to be gay after, right?
Empired; what do you mean you can change your mind about your sexuality if you want to?

[Empired]

@Empired (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=80588); what do you mean you can change your mind about your sexuality if you want to?
No I said it wrong but like

I can think I'm bisexual now but realise I'm a lesbian in the future and that would be ok. If your life experiences are what decides your sexuality, surely they can go on changing it for the rest of your life?

[buttons]

yeah plenty people do that, i understand.
i've known that i like both genders for a long time but in the past i've been solely attracted to men and solely attracted to women. i think it depends what gender i'm around more at the time but it's never a "i'm going to choose to only fancy men/women today".
i suppose sexuality can be fluid in that you never know what will happen in future. my friend thought she was straight she had kids with a man, had only dated men in the past blahblah, we would go out to the gay bar with another friend and she met a girl and they fell in love and she was late 20's at the time and that was the first time she'd ever experienced attraction to a woman. that's how it is for me, it's just simply the person i'm attracted to, so in my head being straight makes no sense, but clearly in the real world it does if the majority of people are. i still don't think that is a choice though, she didn't go to the gay bar, meet a woman and decide to be bisexual or fall in love with her but *realized* she could have attraction to women.

[MKR&*42]

I believe there are several influences and that people choose what to label themselves, but their sexuality it is not a choice.

Fluid, but not a choice.

[karter]

I think there's a deeper meaning to why someone chooses to be gay. Whether it be from past experience, or from personal desire. All cases that I've heard (and yes this does change from person to person) all had traumatic experiences as a child/young teenager that was resulted in the decision to do so.
Personally, no matter what a person's sexual orientation may be - they are just humans. Just like everyone else.


Traumas that may include sexual or physical abuse. It could possibly stem from parental neglect as well. Those types of traumas.

???

it's actually the other way round, traumatic experiences like abuse come from not having heterosexual behaviour. also the other ******** theories like "you're gay if u dont have a strong male figure in your life!!!!" have been proved wrong long ago although they never carried a scientific base anyway, just assumptions. also your original post seems condescending and negative because you implied (whether intentionally or not) that not being hetero is a result of some kind of mental trauma.

OT: I agree with what Undertaker and buttons said

[FlyingJesus]

I think there's a deeper meaning to why someone chooses to be gay. Whether it be from past experience, or from personal desire. All cases that I've heard (and yes this does change from person to person) all had traumatic experiences as a child/young teenager that was resulted in the decision to do so.
Personally, no matter what a person's sexual orientation may be - they are just humans. Just like everyone else.

Are you really suggesting that homosexuality is a conditioned response to trauma and everyone who's ever been interested in the same sex is a victim like really

[jake87385]

No, I wouldn't of chosen to be gay but my god I wouldn't change for anybody

[Brad]

I enjoy how as soon as I have said what I believe people jump down my throat. buttons; I have had people say that to me.
Situations that I have heard (from a lesbian) is that they had been treated wrongly by men and that they chose to be a lesbian. Which has brought trauma to them... Which answers FlyingJesus; karter;
I never even said I hate GLBTs. I treat them as humans. As we should all do so. What is so wrong with that. I don't segregate anyone for what their sexuality is.
I don't mean to speak or make it assume I am speaking condescending because I have no intentions.


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[benzoberzerk]

Oh yeah, we choose our sexuality just like we choose how tall we're gonna be, how deep our voices will become and what diseases we're genetically prone to get later in life. As an infant i was indecisive about what color i wanted my eyes to be, and they eventually ended up being a mixture of gray and blue. All bisexuals probably faced this same problem. Luckily for some, they get to grow up in a society where other people can re-decide this for them! Like, really, all they need is to be told what's accepted and what isn't, and with some beatings, a few threats and some good old ostracism the wrong sexuality will be driven out of them in no time.


I think there's a deeper meaning to why someone chooses to be gay. Whether it be from past experience, or from personal desire. All cases that I've heard (and yes this does change from person to person) all had traumatic experiences as a child/young teenager that was resulted in the decision to do so.
Personally, no matter what a person's sexual orientation may be - they are just humans. Just like everyone else.

Lol.... can you please elaborate on this? I have a hard time understanding how people can actually buy this crap. Would you, if something traumatic happened to you, suddenly decide to become gay? Would another traumatic experience reverse the effect? Maybe it would make you transsexual?

And even if we pretend you're right and say that every single person that isn't straight has this sexuality because of something traumatic that happened to them; wouldn't that be the exact opposite of a "choice"? "I was sexually and physically abused my whole childhood, my life will probably become so much easier if i become gay! Who wants to be normal amirite?!"

[Brad]

@bensoberserk; please read what I had posted before you posted.



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[FlyingJesus]

No-one said that you hate anyone just that your views are provably wrong and paint all homosexuals as victims of abuse suffering from a trauma that makes them that way - essentially stating your belief that homosexuality is a disorder

[buttons]

choosing to date women does not make you a lesbian. being attracted to women solely does. so you can't choose your orientation but you can choose how to act upon it as already said.

[Brad]

FlyingJesus; I never ever said my views were right.
And to buttons; then how can you explain those who go from a married man/woman who goes like many years in a marriage and then one day end the marriage and turn gay/lesbian? Does that mean he had been lying the whole marriage to their spouse?

Or what about the person who thinks he/she is gay but then lives his whole life dating the opposite sex.

I am sorry if I sound like completely rude or misunderstanding, I don't intend on doing so.

And also if we go back to the title of this post its, "do you 'think' you choose your sexual orientation." Which I was stating.


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[FlyingJesus]

Why would you have views that you don't think are right and yes latent homosexuality is a thing

[Kyle]

I love debates on here concerning sexuality or gender lmao one comment can turn 99% of the user base into a pack of rabid dogs!

'Control' over 'choice'; people claim to not be able to choose who they are attracted to but are able to control those desires if they wish. X


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[benzoberzerk]

@bensoberserk; please read what I had posted before you posted.



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Your post doesn't answer my questions. Let's put it like this: do you think any external factors could make you change your mind regarding what sexuality you want to belong to? And by doing so, would your attraction to the opposite sex all of a sudden be completely eliminated? Because by saying homosexuality is a choice, this is what you're telling gay people to do.

[Brad]

Why would you have views that you don't think are right and yes latent homosexuality is a thing

Well, who says everything you know is right? You only know when people tell you, or when you learn about it from either experience or from being informed by a person who has been through it.


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[FlyingJesus]

Quite correct, and now you are being informed :P

[buttons]

And to @buttons (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=42203); then how can you explain those who go from a married man/woman who goes like many years in a marriage and then one day end the marriage and turn gay/lesbian? Does that mean he had been lying the whole marriage to their spouse?

Or what about the person who thinks he/she is gay but then lives his whole life dating the opposite sex.

I am sorry if I sound like completely rude or misunderstanding, I don't intend on doing so.

And also if we go back to the title of this post its, "do you 'think' you choose your sexual orientation." Which I was stating.


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sigh this isn't what you're getting
scenario number one - possibly lied about their sexuality. OR they thought they were straight, fell in love with the same sex, therefore fancy both sex or end up having a reference for the other. that doesn't make them a homosexual. bisexuality/pansexuality exist. choosing to date someone doesn't mean choosing a new sexuality.
scenario number two - think you're gay but date opposite sex still makes you gay? :S you're gay because you're attracted to the same sex. you don't become straight because you choose to date the opposite sex instead.

[Brad]

I love debates on here concerning sexuality or gender lmao one comment can turn 99% of the user base into a pack of rabid dogs!

'Control' over 'choice'; people claim to not be able to choose who they are attracted to but are able to control those desires if they wish. X


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Oh I know. As soon as someone doesn't see the same view as someone else it becomes a battle... Life is life though.


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[buttons]

Oh I know. As soon as someone doesn't see the same view as someone else it becomes a battle... Life is life though.


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i agree but are u straight? cause many of us who aren't don't like to be told it's a choice, otherwise we would choose not to be confused and bullied about our sexual orientation.

[Casanova]

Personally I think everyone is born bi-sexual to a degree; but with a swing to either way.
I would say it's biological with a social aspect accentuating it - you are bisexual but are gay as that's what you feel - meaning this would give you an outcome of gay or straight etc.

I do believe that it's 'born this way' than 'gone this way' in my humble opinion, being a 'gay' man.

[Brad]

i agree but are u straight? cause many of us who aren't don't like to be told it's a choice, otherwise we would choose not to be confused and bullied about our sexual orientation.

Yes I am straight.

Sorry that you've been bullied about that.


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[buttons]

Yes I am straight.

Sorry that you've been bullied about that.


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dont worry about it im not using it to invalidate what you believe
but i notice a lot of the beliefs about choosing comes from those who don't know what it's like to not be straight.
what you're saying is correct, some may choose to date only one gender but that doesn't decide what their *orientation* is because if you date the same sex but like the opposite sex, you're still gay.

[benzoberzerk]

Oh I know. As soon as someone doesn't see the same view as someone else it becomes a battle... Life is life though.


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What's the point of telling people your views if you don't want to discuss them? Particularly in a forum dedicated to debates?

Feel free to answer the question in my previous post btw :)

[jake87385]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlVBg7_08n0

"And I can't change
Even if I tried
Even if I wanted to"

[Brad]

What's the point of telling people your views if you don't want to discuss them? Particularly in a forum dedicated to debates?

Feel free to answer the question in my previous post btw :)

I think I've posted my views, and people didn't like what I had to say. That's the end of that. Why you got a +rep for this is beyond me because it doesn't prove anything.


Your post doesn't answer my questions. Let's put it like this: do you think any external factors could make you change your mind regarding what sexuality you want to belong to?
I don't think you worded that very well, but nonetheless- yes. I think there is a factor. If you've been abused emotionally, and having someone tell you that you're worthless and then repeatedly call you either gay/lesbian - I'm pretty sure after that form of abuse you will start to believe in what people are telling you.
And even looking at those who have been gay/lesbian their whole life; So they go through the same thing. Emotionally abused, being called worthless because they are gay/lesbian. Those same words will sink in and make the person choose not to be gay/lesbian because they rather not go through the same abuse.


And by doing so, would your attraction to the opposite sex all of a sudden be completely eliminated?

Referring to my situation above, yes.


Because by saying homosexuality is a choice, this is what you're telling gay people to do.

Then I guess that would make me such a bad person.

------
Nevertheless, I would say that my situation that I had made above would depict maybe 5-15% of actual situation... but if we're speaking from the world we live in; Homosexuality is still being attacked on. People are dying from both suicide and murder because of this situation.

Maybe instead of sitting here on this forum pointing fingers at people because they think a certain way, why don't we all use this motivation and bring an understanding to the fact that gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transvestites are being attacked everyday for this exact situation.

I just don't see why just because I said one thing makes me stand on the opposite side of everyone else..

- - - Updated - - -

And I say my last post noting that there are a lot of people who are okay with their homosexuality. They know who they are.

I love my friends who are gay. I don't look at them any different. They are who they are.

[benzoberzerk]

I think I've posted my views, and people didn't like what I had to say. That's the end of that. Why you got a +rep for this is beyond me because it doesn't prove anything.


I don't think you worded that very well, but nonetheless- yes. I think there is a factor. If you've been abused emotionally, and having someone tell you that you're worthless and then repeatedly call you either gay/lesbian - I'm pretty sure after that form of abuse you will start to believe in what people are telling you.
And even looking at those who have been gay/lesbian their whole life; So they go through the same thing. Emotionally abused, being called worthless because they are gay/lesbian. Those same words will sink in and make the person choose not to be gay/lesbian because they rather not go through the same abuse.



Referring to my situation above, yes.



Then I guess that would make me such a bad person.

------
Nevertheless, I would say that my situation that I had made above would depict maybe 5-15% of actual situation... but if we're speaking from the world we live in; Homosexuality is still being attacked on. People are dying from both suicide and murder because of this situation.

Maybe instead of sitting here on this forum pointing fingers at people because they think a certain way, why don't we all use this motivation and bring an understanding to the fact that gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transvestites are being attacked everyday for this exact situation.

I just don't see why just because I said one thing makes me stand on the opposite side of everyone else..

- - - Updated - - -

And I say my last post noting that there are a lot of people who are okay with their homosexuality. They know who they are.

I love my friends who are gay. I don't look at them any different. They are who they are.
Well then, excuse my poor choice of words. I'm simply trying to keep this conversation on your level because you seem very reluctant to try to understand where i'm coming from. I'm honestly not trying to discredit you and i apologize if you feel like i'm attacking you.

Your "situation that you had made above depict maybe 5-15% of actual situation"? I'm not sure what that means, but if you're talking about your entire argument then i don't understand why you would base your assumptions about what makes someone gay on this 5-15%?

I don't believe you're entirely wrong about abuse, some types of it can most likely play in although little research support it. I just don't get why you're arguing that this would be the main reason for not only someone becoming gay, but someone actually deciding to become gay.


but if we're speaking from the world we live in; Homosexuality is still being attacked on. People are dying from both suicide and murder because of this situation.

Maybe instead of sitting here on this forum pointing fingers at people because they think a certain way, why don't we all use this motivation and bring an understanding to the fact that gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transvestites are being attacked everyday for this exact situation.

I just don't see why just because I said one thing makes me stand on the opposite side of everyone else..

You don't realize that this is exactly what the majority of the people in this thread are trying to do..? And that the reason people question you is that you use very similar arguments as all those who oppose homosexuality because in their eyes it's a disease that one could and should be cured of?

[Brad]

Your "situation that you had made above depict maybe 5-15% of actual situation I'm not sure what that means, but if you're talking about your entire argument then i don't understand why you would base your assumptions about what makes someone gay on this 5-15%

I'm not actually talking about my entire argument. I agree with what everyone said. Haha, I just thought that bringing an addition to what everyone else said, because if you look at what everyone else has said... It's the same thing... Why say the same thing as everyone else. That wouldn't be such a debate, would it? :P



I don't believe you're entirely wrong about abuse, some types of it can most likely play in although little research support it. I just don't get why you're arguing that this would be the main reason for not only someone becoming gay, but someone actually deciding to become gay.

And I would agree on this. Definitely not the only/main reason. As I noted above. I do believe and agree in what everyone else has said. I was just supporting this side of the original message Kyle had asked me at the very beginning. Not that it was my official answer, but it was an addition to everyone else's answers.

Does this make sense?


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[Empired]

Poor Brad! If you ask me his original post was badly worded and didn't represent what he was actually trying to say. Anyway the idea of finding your sexuality is purely abstract and no two people will ever discover their sexuality in the exact same way. If Brad thinks it's down to traumatic/life experiences, maybe for him it IS down to that. Is it so difficult to believe the origins of peoples' sexualities can come about in different ways?

I'm not entirely sure I agree with all you have to say, Brad, but I actually do kinda see where you're coming from about the idea of "traumatic" experiences. However, I don't think it's necessarily just "traumatic" experiences, but life experiences in general. For example I have no strong, positive male role models in my life and so find it very difficult to be comfortable around males in real life because I don't know how to act around them at all. Because of this, I spend more time around females meaning I'm more likely to end up attracted to one of them because I spend more time getting to know them better, I feel more comfortable around them in general, etc.

The idea of "traumatic" experiences only really seems to impact homosexuals/bisexuals I think. And even then, it doesn't change their sexuality it just suppresses it. So like your family/peers can bully you and make you feel awful about being gay so you try to hide it but it still never actually goes away.

I thought I'd bring back this video for anyone who hasn't seen it. It's an interesting watch and really makes you think:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnOJgDW0gPI

[The Don]

No, I don't believe people choose their sexuality. I didn't choose to be attracted to girls, I just am. If people did choose their sexuality then why on earth would we still be getting gay people in countries such as Uganda where it's heavily persecuted against?

[Brad]

Poor Brad! If you ask me his original post was badly worded and didn't represent what he was actually trying to say. Anyway the idea of finding your sexuality is purely abstract and no two people will ever discover their sexuality in the exact same way. If Brad thinks it's down to traumatic/life experiences, maybe for him it IS down to that. Is it so difficult to believe the origins of peoples' sexualities can come about in different ways?

I'm not entirely sure I agree with all you have to say, Brad, but I actually do kinda see where you're coming from about the idea of "traumatic" experiences. However, I don't think it's necessarily just "traumatic" experiences, but life experiences in general. For example I have no strong, positive male role models in my life and so find it very difficult to be comfortable around males in real life because I don't know how to act around them at all. Because of this, I spend more time around females meaning I'm more likely to end up attracted to one of them because I spend more time getting to know them better, I feel more comfortable around them in general, etc.

The idea of "traumatic" experiences only really seems to impact homosexuals/bisexuals I think. And even then, it doesn't change their sexuality it just suppresses it. So like your family/peers can bully you and make you feel awful about being gay so you try to hide it but it still never actually goes away.

I thought I'd bring back this video for anyone who hasn't seen it. It's an interesting watch and really makes you think:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnOJgDW0gPI

I like the way you said that no two people find their sexuality the same way, and yes. I think your view has a lot of meaning behind it too because generally everyone wants to be around someone they feel comfortable around whether be the same gender or not.
And suppression is such a better word to use. Thanks for your post. I'll rep it once I'm on a computer since I don't know how to do so on tapatalk


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[ShadowKingpin]

no i didn't choose my sexuality. if i look back, i know i fancied girls when i was already too young to know that it wasn't "normal" or to know what sexuality was.

there's evidence for genetic predispositions, environmental influences, a combination between the two, prenatal stress and hormones.

if you ask a gay person they will most likely say no. unless they're political lesbians, who choose to date women only, despite being attracted to males. choosing to date only one gender is different to actual attraction. i don't think you can force it but then again i don't know what it's like to be only attracted to one gender.

but really @bikini (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=119486); you've heard people say "i went through ____, so i chose to be gay"?

if a woman told me she'd chosen to be bisexual/lesbian or a man told me he'd chosen to be bisexual/straight then i wouldn't want to date them. afterall, the woman could choose to be straight the next month, or the man choose to be gay after, right?
Empired; what do you mean you can change your mind about your sexuality if you want to?

This on so many levels. I never chose who I was attracted to. If anything, it's my genetics since I have always enjoyed both genders since before I could fully understand it. If someone tells you they became gay because of something that hurt them, I don't know how that would even work (Maybe I'm ignorant on that part), but every person of the LGBT community that I know personally have always told me that they were born that way. They all grew up in different forms of lifestyles, economical backgrounds and more with nothing bad happening to them that would turn them gay. They just are what they are and none of us can really explain it.

[October]

I really don't understand how anyone can think that being gay is a choice.

Why would anyone choose to be possibly alienated and bullied by their family, friends, society in general?

They wouldn't, which is why most remain in the closet for long periods of time.

[Cody]

This was a talked about topic in my sociology class and my professor told us why not let us pick what we want to wear as kids? For instance he told us how this 4 year old boy wanted to wear a dress to school and his parents didn't let him. Our professor then went into detail on his parents should of let him he is only four. Another is how we distinct colors to gender like if a baby is wearing pink then its defined a girl and if a baby wears blue it's defined being a boy. I feel like you should let your kids choose what they want to do and be who they want to be, however they're limits to this.

[Empired]

This was a talked about topic in my sociology class and my professor told us why not let us pick what we want to wear as kids? For instance he told us how this 4 year old boy wanted to wear a dress to school and his parents didn't let him. Our professor then went into detail on his parents should of let him he is only four. Another is how we distinct colors to gender like if a baby is wearing pink then its defined a girl and if a baby wears blue it's defined being a boy. I feel like you should let your kids choose what they want to do and be who they want to be, however they're limits to this.
I would argue that that would count under gender orientation (is gender orientation a thing?) rather than sexual orientation. I dont know that much about gender as I've always been happy as a female and that's that.

Sent from phone

[Kyle]

This was a talked about topic in my sociology class and my professor told us why not let us pick what we want to wear as kids? For instance he told us how this 4 year old boy wanted to wear a dress to school and his parents didn't let him. Our professor then went into detail on his parents should of let him he is only four. Another is how we distinct colors to gender like if a baby is wearing pink then its defined a girl and if a baby wears blue it's defined being a boy. I feel like you should let your kids choose what they want to do and be who they want to be, however they're limits to this.

Disagree but what do you think the limits to it are?


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[-:Undertaker:-]

What is this weak parenting that is so trendy? "Let your kids wear what they want" erm no the children will wear what I as the parent will want them to wear.

It's bad enough that people think dressing boys as girls is normal in anyway yet on top of that they want to be sissies to their own children as well by not instilling any concept of order into the child by making sure that they know you as the parent decides. I am the parent and I will decide what you wear. End of.

[Empired]

What is this weak parenting that is so trendy? "Let your kids wear what they want" erm no the children will wear what I as the parent will want them to wear.

It's bad enough that people think dressing boys as girls is normal in anyway yet on top of that they want to be sissies to their own children as well by not instilling any concept of order into the child by making sure that they know you as the parent decides. I am the parent and I will decide what you wear. End of.
Your children are being sent to boarding school on their fifth birthdays, joining the army at 17 and are being expected to die for their country by the age of 21 aren't they.

You can tell your kid what to wear and they'll probably do it when they set out of the house in the morning. But whatever you send them out of the house in will in no way resemble what they come home in because they're kids and they'll cover themselves in all sorts, pick at their hair all day, and kick off and forget about their shoes at the earlier opportunity.
But as soon as that child hits 13 there is absolutely no ******* way they will wear what you tell them. In fact, if you tell you them they can't wear a dress they will deliberately go out of their way to find a dress just to piss you off. Teenagers are not dogs. Tell them to sit and they'll make sure they never sit down again.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Your children are being sent to boarding school on their fifth birthdays, joining the army at 17 and are being expected to die for their country by the age of 21 aren't they.

My children won't grow up spoilt.
My children will have manners.
My children will respect authority.
My children will know right from wrong.
My children will be proud of their area and their country.

That's right. I realise in 2015 that is totally uncool and so not trendy, but hey they'll thank me when they reach my age.


You can tell your kid what to wear and they'll probably do it when they set out of the house in the morning. But whatever you send them out of the house in will in no way resemble what they come home in because they're kids and they'll cover themselves in all sorts, pick at their hair all day, and kick off and forget about their shoes at the earlier opportunity.
But as soon as that child hits 13 there is absolutely no ******* way they will wear what you tell them. In fact, if you tell you them they can't wear a dress they will deliberately go out of their way to find a dress just to piss you off. Teenagers are not dogs. Tell them to sit and they'll make sure they never sit down again.

You confuse teenagers with what I am talking about, children.

But I won't have a spoilt brat as a teenager in my house either. My house, my rules.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HEwU8kzl-8




"Am I friends with my children? No. I'm not your friend, i'm your parent."

He and his partner are the best argument for gay adoption I have ever seen.

[Empired]

My children won't grow up spoilt.
My children will have manners.
My children will respect authority.
My children will know right from wrong.
My children will be proud of their area and their country.

That's right. I realise in 2015 that is totally uncool and so not trendy, but hey they'll thank me when they reach my age.



You confuse teenagers with what I am talking about, children.

But I won't have a spoilt brat as a teenager in my house either. My house, my rules.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HEwU8kzl-8


I wish you luck with this approach. I really do but I can't help but worry that the approach you're taking is pretty much loveless.

And I don't understand why you're not talking about children AND teenagers. Surely your kids are going to grow up to become teenagers? Or are you hoping they're gonna wake up on their 13th birthday but wow! they're 20!? Unless you're planning to "bring them up" (I use the term loosely here) until they're 12 and then just kick them out.

But seriously, good luck with that. Children aren't brainless robots you can program your beliefs into. Kids AND teenagers make mistakes, and they deliberately undermine authority just because they ******* well can. Expecting them to be perfect little clones doesn't mean they will be, and you'd be a daft to think that they will.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I wish you luck with this approach. I really do but I can't help but worry that the approach you're taking is pretty much loveless.

To me what is 'loveless' is allowing a child to get into a position where he or she is taking drugs. What is 'loveless' is having a child who has no manners and no respect for his or her elders. What is 'loveless' is not drumming what I listed above into them as they are the next generation: they are the future.


But seriously, good luck with that. Children aren't brainless robots you can program your beliefs into. Kids AND teenagers make mistakes, and they deliberately undermine authority just because they ******* well can. Expecting them to be perfect little clones doesn't mean they will be, and you'd be a daft to think that they will.

Oh of course, and that is the challenge of parenting.

But my parents kept me in line whenever I stepped out of it, mainly via smacking, as I would the same.

[FlyingJesus]

You're right kids with strict parents never act out and turn to drugs or anything

[Cody]

I would argue that that would count under gender orientation (is gender orientation a thing?) rather than sexual orientation. I dont know that much about gender as I've always been happy as a female and that's that.

Sent from phone
I don't know that much about it either but this was told by my professor! And he made some valid points!

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Disagree but what do you think the limits to it are?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This was told by my professor but I think his only point was let your children be who they want to be, if they want to be gay let them be gay, if they want to be bi let them be bi, etc. I think his point was if your child wants to be who they want to be let them be it, it can almost define who they want to be as a person. For instance, if a girl wanted to wear boy clothes and later on became older and realized she liked girls she should be able to do so. I hope this makes sense. I might be messing up somewhere but limits is tough to go into detail about because not every parent is the same with their children so I couldn't answer that!

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What is this weak parenting that is so trendy? "Let your kids wear what they want" erm no the children will wear what I as the parent will want them to wear.

It's bad enough that people think dressing boys as girls is normal in anyway yet on top of that they want to be sissies to their own children as well by not instilling any concept of order into the child by making sure that they know you as the parent decides. I am the parent and I will decide what you wear. End of.

Yeah see this comes into play to as well! This can go both ways for sure! Trust me as a parent I would want my child dressing as his or her gender but if they got older and my daughter turned out to be bi I would accept her choices (with what I was saying having to be dressed the opposite gender could cause your child to like the same sex) Like I said I don't know much but it's what my professor talked about in a debate.

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My children won't grow up spoilt.
My children will have manners.
My children will respect authority.
My children will know right from wrong.
My children will be proud of their area and their country.

That's right. I realise in 2015 that is totally uncool and so not trendy, but hey they'll thank me when they reach my age.



You confuse teenagers with what I am talking about, children.

But I won't have a spoilt brat as a teenager in my house either. My house, my rules.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HEwU8kzl-8




"Am I friends with my children? No. I'm not your friend, i'm your parent."

He and his partner are the best argument for gay adoption I have ever seen.
I agree with everything you're saying. 100 percent agree.

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You're right kids with strict parents never act out and turn to drugs or anything
I was raised well with manners and as a kid I was spanked if I did wrong so I agree as well.

[FlyingJesus]

I was being sarcastic, well done on missing that...

The vision of the overprotected stigmatised child throwing caution to the wind and becoming a meth addict or whatever is so obvious a human trait that it's become a trope. The harder you try to reign them in the harder they push away; I have several personal contacts who I used to be extremely close to but have no links with now because their militant parents drove them to a life of animalistic damagedamagedamage and it's actually scary to see what these people have turned out like - note that my reticence with regards to proximity with these contacts is down to what they have become rather who they were as children.

Some people seem to think that the only options are hippie free love or absolute regimental life, but there is this magical world in between which we call "reality", where you take situations as they come and don't just subscribe to an Ayn Rand/George Orwelll/Aldous Huxley/insert name here fictitious dogma. Literature attached to these names are very interesting and well worth looking into, but they all in their own way depend on one flawed premise: they think that humans will all move in one way without taking into account individuality (indeed, individuality of any sort is usually the basis of any uto/dystoption story) so it's best to look at what really occurs rather than what certain people might think will go on. I know that most people in this particular community don't have hands-on experience with raising children, and I really hope that certain folk become either less rigid or more instructive when their turn comes because so many people seem to be saying that they'll either give 100% freedom to their kids or 0% and neither of those are the right way to do it.



This debate has moved farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr away from its original premise (which was already flawed as I'm pretty sure no-one with an education believes preferences to be wholly conscious) lmao :P but oh well interesting stuff going on

[GommeInc]

I think the world isn't as simple a place to simple say yes or no.

You could break down this argument into separate areas. Straight or gay individuals who hold strong moral convictions to halt their urges which takes a strong mind, to those damaging themselves by choosing to have sex with the opposite or same sex when their body or "heart" isn't convinced they like it, and those who are so easy going and open that they can choose to be either. Choose is a dodgy word to use as you do not necessarily choose who you are if you are bisexual as it tends to go with the moment, and some have that choice chosen for them because they think it reprehensible and dirty that they make such a choice when really they're scared of their own self-judgement.

If we were so convinced labels are important, which I personally don't care about, then we simply wouldn't have any diversity or variation in the obvious large number of different people we see in the world. If people choose to be straight or gay, then bisexuals must be a strange concept to some, yet they exist and quite happily. You also get certain religious or social groups which simply say no to sex - that can be a choice or a moral, religious "external" choice.

I just find labels damaging. I don't care if you sex up men or women and I find activism for either to be stupid IF it becomes aggressive when as far as I see it I judge you on individuality rather than assign you to a category and tar you with the same brush as others. Provided you aren't an arse I don't care what tickles your fancy.

[Kimmy]

I don't think it's necessarily a choice, but I also don't believe that it's entirely biological. It could be down to influential factors of someone's life, but it could be entirely preferable depending on the person. When it comes to being straight, I grew up with it being the norm. No, this is not homophobic, and yes, it was naive, but I never had any understanding or concept of what being 'gay' meant until late primary school/early high school. Of course you'd get the typical teasing of 'Paul likes boys' or 'Erin likes girls' but I never paid any attention because I found it insensitive or immature to criticize what anyone chooses to do with their life, under any circumstance whether it be 'choosing' to be gay, or transgender or any of those socially scrutinized areas.

So whether someone chooses to be gay or not, that's cool. You can tell when people try to contort their body image to be the norm and when they're genuine and stellar about who they are and why. I do not think, however, that people can have the freedom to pick and choose. I think something like this is set in stone and it may take some fluctuating to find that solidarity and understanding of yourself - perhaps evidencing biological factors.

All in all, I think it takes a little bit of everything. Biological, influential, choice.

[Alysha]

Nothing is straight forward in this concept. It's not a choice, it's not an obligation based on traumas, but there may well be other deciding factors. On a personal level, I can not pinpoint any traumatic experience. I dated males until Lauren came along, and that was a completely new spectrum for me. Granted I chose to be with her, but when you're attracted and all you want is to be with someone, that pull is certainly not a choice.
I came from a strict household, if I stepped out of line, I too would have been punished, but it was far from loveless. My father tries his hardest to comprehend my current situation, but he struggles. It's the fact that he's trying so hard that gets me though. Why is the stigmatisation of being gay such a powerful one?
You don't control who you love, you simply control the actions you take in regards to it.
The only stereotype I can think of that could have influenced my orientation, which lets be honest, I don't even know; pansexual maybe; is that I played a lot of sports when I was younger, like hockey and rugby, but it was a good 5 years of not playing before I fell in love with Lauren.

Dan, your parenting will only get you so far, honestly, you may have to adapt it along the way; if your child's individuality shines stronger than your regimental parenting, and they turn out to be gay, or heaven forbid transsexual, how would you react out of interest?

[SoiFon]

No, you don't choose your sexual orientation. I don't know why it matters though either way. Just let people do what they want to do as long as they aren't hurting anyone.

[Earthquake]

Okay, firstly, before I answer I want to say this debate is actually quite inappropriate.

secondly, depends on how you mean, anybody can say they are gay/lesbian but if you mean actually being sexually attracted to another sex then that's not a choice just how your body has programmed.

[Empired]

Okay, firstly, before I answer I want to say this debate is actually quite inappropriate.
In what ways?

Also, I'm sure I replied to this a long time ago but my answer has probably changed over the past few weeks/months:
I think you can't choose your sexual orientation but you can choose to start identifying as a certain sexuality. So a gay man hasn't chosen to be gay but he may be choosing to ignore it and carry on identifying as heterosexual.

[Aiden]

I don't think it's a choice but I also don't think it's something you're born with. I think it's just something that as you age you realise interest you and that's how you want to live. Some people grow up to adore board games, it's not a genetic trait and they didn't choice to enjoy particularly. I have no actual proof or research or anything of the sort but that's the answer I can come up with. If someone can prove me wrong then I would happily agree with the facts.

Even if it's a choice or a birth trait, it shouldn't be something that matters.

[Landon]

My views operate in both ways.

This was previously mentioned, but I think that as a result of me never having a true role model as a man, I get along with women much easier than men. As well, I also believe that it's in our genes. I don't think that we necessarily have much of a mental choice.

But again, my main influence is the way that I cooperate with both genders.

[Kyle]

My views operate in both ways.

This was previously mentioned, but I think that as a result of me never having a true role model as a man, I get along with women much easier than men. As well, I also believe that it's in our genes. I don't think that we necessarily have much of a mental choice.

But again, my main influence is the way that I cooperate with both genders.
If you get along easier with women is it not much simpler to enter relationships with them rather than men?

[Landon]

If you get along easier with women is it not much simpler to enter relationships with them rather than men?

I have problems interacting in a positive way with men. So, in a sense, I am sure it is.

[Kyle]

I have problems interacting in a positive way with men. So, in a sense, I am sure it is.
In which case what bearing does this have on your sexuality?

[Landon]

In which case what bearing does this have on your sexuality?

It gives me the willingness to have confidence around women.

And again, this is not the only set reason that I feel I am straight. I've grown up with it and have never become attracted to men.

[Kyle]

It gives me the willingness to have confidence around women.

And again, this is not the only set reason that I feel I am straight. I've grown up with it and have never become attracted to men.
OH I thought you were gay pmsl that makes a LOT more sense! Interesting that normally it's boys with single mothers who turn out gay.

[Landon]

OH I thought you were gay pmsl that makes a LOT more sense! Interesting that normally it's boys with single mothers who turn out gay.

How did you think I was gay? Lol. The fact that I didn't mention my father? aha

[Joe]

i think it's all about experimenting with either thoughts or actions in early life to see where you're at your happinest - for example during year 7 people thought I was gay ( I was and still do have feminine qualities ) and it even made me question my orientation, so it can also be environmental factors that can sway decisions and feelings.

aaaaaaand then I got a girlfriend and realised i'm very straight ;)