Should concealing a gun/knife in public be legal?

[Landon]

http://v2.robarguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/custom-1911.jpg

Where I live, we're hunters. Not me specifically, but most of my family and other families in my city hunt and have plenty of weapons.

Should concealing weapons (aka guns or knives) in public be legal?

Argument 1:

Concealing weapons is a threat to our society. It just allows people to look cool, and weapons are merely used to intimidate others, whether they are attacked or not (which is rare). That is the reason why we have the police to deal with situations. There will be no threat of weapons once they are extracted from society.

Argument 2:

If everyone had at least some form of self-defense, people would back off when it comes to fights. Weapons are not used to intimidate, but rather to defend themselves if a situation determines the need to use a weapon to protect a life or two. Police do not respond fast enough when it comes down to life-threatening situations.

You all know which argument I stand with based on my activity on the forum. But I want to hear what you have to say!

[scottish]

No, it should remain illegal.

I also fail to understand why you feel the need to mention people in your area are hunters, walking around the streets with a knife and gun concealed is hardly going to prove useful for any hunting? do you have deer jumping people or something?

[Landon]

No, it should remain illegal.

I also fail to understand why you feel the need to mention people in your area are hunters, walking around the streets with a knife and gun concealed is hardly going to prove useful for any hunting? do you have deer jumping people or something?

Then I'll make you understand. If you're a hunter then often times you will have many weapons. People do in fact walk around with guns and knives without the intent of using them for hunting.

[scottish]

So? They have a lot of weapons doesn't mean they have to walk about the streets with them.. still isn't making sense.

[despect]

I think it should stay illegal, we have enough crime and terriosts let alone adding something that could potentially cause more crime. I understand its for protection but its too risky.

[Alkaz]

Lmao are you mad?

[Landon]

So? They have a lot of weapons doesn't mean they have to walk about the streets with them.. still isn't making sense.

I can't control that. That's why people carry weapons for self-defense.

[scottish]

I can't control that. That's why people carry weapons for self-defense.

So you admit your comment about hunters was absolutely pointless?

[Landon]

So you admit your comment about hunters was absolutely pointless?

It's pointless to you obviously but not to me. I deal with this where I live and you don't.

[scottish]

You're still not getting it.

It makes absolutely 0 difference if one is a hunter or not when concerning carrying concealed weapons.

Just because person A has 10 guns/weapons that they use for hunting doesn't mean they're going to walk around with a weapon concealed all the time?

as I said from the start, adding that snippet of text is absolutely pointless and has no relevance to the thread.

[Landon]

You're still not getting it.

It makes absolutely 0 difference if one is a hunter or not when concerning carrying concealed weapons.

Just because person A has 10 guns/weapons that they use for hunting doesn't mean they're going to walk around with a weapon concealed all the time?

as I said from the start, adding that snippet of text is absolutely pointless and has no relevance to the thread.

It definitely makes a difference. If no one carried weapons or hunted here then I wouldn't have a need to carry anything lol

[scottish]

If someone wanted to shoot you, it's not going to be a hunter coming back from hunting thinking 'oh I have a gun, and there's a human, let's shoot'. Likewise with a knife, they're not going to return from hunting with a knife on them and think oh I better stab this kid I have a knife on me.

No relevance.

[Landon]

If someone wanted to shoot you, it's not going to be a hunter coming back from hunting thinking 'oh I have a gun, and there's a human, let's shoot'. Likewise with a knife, they're not going to return from hunting with a knife on them and think oh I better stab this kid I have a knife on me.

No relevance.

You would be very surprised what mental instability can do to people. Ever heard of Chris Kyle? Very unfortunate death.

[scottish]

Yes, he was killed in a shooting range by someone with PTSD and schizophrenia.

Again, absolutely nothing to do with carrying concealed weapons on alleged 'hunters'.

[Landon]

Yes, he was killed in a shooting range by someone with PTSD and schizophrenia.

Again, absolutely nothing to do with carrying concealed weapons on alleged 'hunters'.

It's a valid point though! Do you want to let a mentally ill person kill you? Lmao nah. I'm shooting (stabbing in my case) right back. Not letting them kill me.

[scottish]

It's not a valid point as it has no relevance to what I was saying?

I stated your need to mention hunters was irrelevant.

Let me remind you:

You = Where I live there's a lot of 'hunters' and have plenty of weapons
Me = Why mention there's hunters where you live, people walking about with guns/knifes concealed has no relevance to hunting unless you're prone to animals jumping out and attacking people
You = Hunters have lots of weapons
Me = So? having lots of weapons doesn't mean they have to walk about the streets with them concealed
You = I can't control that, that's why people carry weapons for self defence
Me = So you admit your comment about hunters was absolutely pointless?
You = It's pointless to you but not me
Me = It makes 0 dif if you're a hunter or not, just because Person A has 10 weapons they use for hunting doesn't mean they walk about with concealed weapons, that snippet of text is pointless and irrelevant
You = It does make a difference, if no-one carried weapons or hunted I wouldn't carry anything
Me = If someone wanted to kill you it's not going to be a hunter coming back from hunting and killing you due to the fact they have a weapon on them
You = Chris Kyle
Me = Irrelevant
You = It is valid! do you want to be killed by a mentally ill person?
Me = You are slowly killing me with this thread

[Landon]

Me = You are slowly killing me with this thread

There's you avoiding the question. Anytime I challenge you (and might have been Tom as well), you just write the dialogue that we had so as to avoid the conversation lol.

Am I hurting your feelings with these posts? You're not being forced to talk about it. :)

[scottish]

There's you avoiding the question. Anytime I challenge you (and might have been Tom as well), you just write the dialogue that we had so as to avoid the conversation lol.

Am I hurting your feelings with these posts? You're not being forced to talk about it. :)

Because your question is trying to completely change the topic of what we're talking about rather than admitting your original statement regarding hunters was pointless.

If i'm talking to you about a comment on hunters and you start talking about someone being killed in a shooting range with an unconcealed weapon I'm obviously going to revert the comments back to what we're actually talking about...

I write the dialogue to help you understand your stupidity, but that doesn't appear to have helped either evidently.

Your question also doesn't require an answer, no-one is going to respond 'yes I want to be killed by someone with a mental illness'..

Cute that you think I have feelings.

Off topic though I'm curious for you to show any questions that I haven't answered? If anything I've noticed its your side of the fence that changes subject (as we've also shown here).

[Landon]

Cute that you think I have feelings.

Aren't you the real alpha male haha!

Sorry, but I choose to defend myself against people that are either mentally ill/have a gun or weapon and want to kill someone. I won't let myself be a victim of murder because I wasn't prepared. You obviously think differently.

[scottish]

Aren't you the real alpha male haha!

Sorry, but I choose to defend myself against people that are either mentally ill/have a gun or weapon and want to kill someone. I won't let myself be a victim of murder because I wasn't prepared. You obviously think differently.

Again you're avoiding the point, I said your reference to the hunters was irrelevant, nothing to do with mentally ill people carrying weapons?

[Landon]

Again you're avoiding the point, I said your reference to the hunters was irrelevant, nothing to do with mentally ill people carrying weapons?

And I told you it is relevant.... to me. I live in the United States of America. I feel safer carrying a weapon because of the fact that people do in fact kill others. Yes - hunters can kill people too. Not just those that meet your criteria.

[scottish]

and I'm saying your comment about hunters is completely irrelevant to the debate. It doesn't matter if you live in the USA, UK or Iraq.

I don't care if you feel safer carrying a weapon, I've not been debating that at all.

[Landon]

and I'm saying your comment about hunters is completely irrelevant to the debate. It doesn't matter if you live in the USA, UK or Iraq.

I don't care if you feel safer carrying a weapon, I've not been debating that at all.

This topic is 'Should concealing a gun/knife in public be legal?'

I've given you reasons based on my experiences living in the United States. It matters to ME personally because I feel the need to defend myself. That alone is my reasoning on why I think concealment should remain/be legal.

[scottish]

This topic is 'Should concealing a gun/knife in public be legal?'

I've given you reasons based on my experiences living in the United States. It matters to ME personally because I feel the need to defend myself. That alone is my reasoning on why I think concealment should remain/be legal.

and I'm stating your opening sentence 'Where I live, we're hunters. Not me specifically, but most of my family and other families in my city hunt and have plenty of weapons.' is absolutely pointless and has no relevance to the debate.

I don't care if you're for or against legalising concealed weapons, nor have I ever indicated that in any post in this thread. Every response was regarding the above.

[Landon]

and I'm stating your opening sentence 'Where I live, we're hunters. Not me specifically, but most of my family and other families in my city hunt and have plenty of weapons.' is absolutely pointless and has no relevance to the debate.

I don't care if you're for or against legalising concealed weapons, nor have I ever indicated that in any post in this thread. Every response was regarding the above.

But it absolutely does matter. If I were not around weapons then I probably would not carry.

You still do not understand. It's sad because this is my whole reasoning behind enjoying knives...

[scottish]

But it absolutely does matter. If I were not around weapons then I probably would not carry.

You still do not understand. It's sad because this is my whole reasoning behind enjoying knives...

It doesn't matter, if you didn't live near hunters you'd still have people with weapons on them as you live in the USA. Hunter or not people have guns. I'd imagine hunters don't walk around with weapons concealed either (i'd imagine it's a lot harder to conceal a rifle than it is a pistol).

If you lived in LA or Detroit or something I'd imagine you'd just be as scared and I doubt there's many hunters there.

Also out of curiosity, has there been any reported shootings by someone who was a hunter returning from hunting?

You enjoy knifes because you can't understand something on a habbo forum? Okay.

[Landon]

Also out of curiosity, has there been any reported shootings by someone who was a hunter returning from hunting?

Not sure. Probably.


You enjoy knifes because you can't understand something on a habbo forum? Okay.

You're confused.

I have knives because my godfather started me on them when I was very little as a gift. Your ignorance is very absurd. I started these threads because of my previous love and interest for self-defense. I mentioned my family hunted to provide a backdrop as to why I became interested in knives. Due to my including of the fact that my family hunts, you suddenly are offended because I am providing my conflicting opinions with yours and the mere fact that I said my family "hunts" lol. Apparently the remark that my family is a hunting family triggers you.

[peteyt]

It's a valid point though! Do you want to let a mentally ill person kill you? Lmao nah. I'm shooting (stabbing in my case) right back. Not letting them kill me.
But surely if he couldn't get hold of a gun you wouldn't need a gun to defend yourself from his gun.

Here in the uk its a lot different. Yes criminals can get hold of guns illegally but you don't see all the school massacres you see in the states.

In america if they banned guns yes some criminals would get hold of them on the black market but i can imagine gun crimes would go down. You can never stop it completley and people seem to use this fact as a way to state it should be legal. However surely its better to have it harder to get hold of weapons and with less risk than to just make it legal and raise the risk

[Landon]

But surely if he couldn't get hold of a gun you wouldn't need a gun to defend yourself from his gun.

Here in the uk its a lot different. Yes criminals can get hold of guns illegally but you don't see all the school massacres you see in the states.

In america if they banned guns yes some criminals would get hold of them on the black market but i can imagine gun crimes would go down. You can never stop it completley and people seem to use this fact as a way to state it should be legal. However surely its better to have it harder to get hold of weapons and with less risk than to just make it legal and raise the risk
Still, that doesn't change the fact that if a criminal wants to get ahold of a gun and kill someone, he or she will do so. Then we're the ones that are hosed for not being prepared.

[peteyt]

Still, that doesn't change the fact that if a criminal wants to get ahold of a gun and kill someone, he or she will do so. Then we're the ones that are hosed for not being prepared.

But that was my main point. People go oh criminals will still get hold of them so we might as well make it legal. That's like saying they are going to get hold of it so we might as well not bother making it hard for them to get hold of it. I'm sure people could get hold of grenades if they had the right contacts so should we just make it legal for people to carry grenades?

[Landon]

But that was my main point. People go oh criminals will still get hold of them so we might as well make it legal. That's like saying they are going to get hold of it so we might as well not bother making it hard for them to get hold of it. I'm sure people could get hold of grenades if they had the right contacts so should we just make it legal for people to carry grenades?

Just because people get ahold of heroin doesn't mean heroin should be legal. It's not a valid question.

[peteyt]

Just because people get ahold of heroin doesn't mean heroin should be legal. It's not a valid question.
But that's what your saying about guns. Your saying guns shouldn't be banned because criminals will get hold of them still and then people will be weaponless. It's my belief a lot of the school massacres would never have happened if guns weren't allowed. Surely it's better to try everything to prevent people getting weapons than nothing at all.

[Landon]

But that's what your saying about guns. Your saying guns shouldn't be banned because criminals will get hold of them still and then people will be weaponless.

Not at all. I'm saying guns shouldn't be banned because we can easily diffuse a situation when there's another person with a gun that could for instance stop a school shooting rather than letting the person kill the kids.

What I meant by the criminals getting ahold of things is it doesn't make a difference whether or not they're legal. They're still gonna get ahold of guns, like drugs. Again I don't think that drugs should be legal but I used that as an example. People still get their hands on it even if its not legal. It'll be like drug trafficking. Guns will be shipped around like cocaine in Columbia lol

[peteyt]

Not at all. I'm saying guns shouldn't be banned because we can easily diffuse a situation when there's another person with a gun that could for instance stop a school shooting rather than letting the person kill the kids.

Surely that is what the police and stuff is for. My point is yes criminals will get hold of it but the average person won't. Your not going to have to have a weapon to protect a school for a child if that child can't easily get hold of a weapon in the first place e.g. from someone like their parents. Surely there's a reason there are no shootings in the uk school wise.

[Landon]

Surely that is what the police and stuff is for.

Police take time to respond. (Aka get dispatched, accelerate, finally arrive at the location) That's normally 3 to 5 mins here. That's a lot of dead people my friend. :/ A person strolling around the streets with a concealed weapon does not take time to respond. Multiple good people = good outcome.

[peteyt]

Police take time to respond. (Aka get dispatched, accelerate, finally arrive at the location) That's normally 3 to 5 mins here. That's a lot of dead people my friend. :/ A person strolling around the streets with a concealed weapon does not take time to respond. Multiple good people = good outcome.

It still doesn't answer why UK Schools don't have shootings compared to US schools. The reason in my eyes is simply because it is hard for them in the UK to get hold of weapons.

[Landon]

It still doesn't answer why UK Schools don't have shootings compared to US schools. The reason in my eyes is simply because it is hard for them in the UK to get hold of weapons.

And it's easier to get a hold of weapons here.

I will tell you this though. If weapons were never legal here, I wouldn't want to make them legal. But making something illegal is going to get more people smuggling them and passing them around. Then you'd have whole gangs having guns but absolutely no decent person of the streets having a gun. It'd be the wild west again. I certainly don't want that to happen. So making them illegal is a horrible idea.

[despect]

And how many people in USA have used their weapons for the complete wrong reason? I'd say quite a lot! The thing is the law over there is quite risky because you can just say you shot someone because they tried to attack you and youd most likely get away with it. Whos to say they arent telling the truth if they say it was self defence?

[Landon]

The thing is the law over there is quite risky because you can just say you shot someone because they tried to attack you and youd most likely get away with it.

Not true at all. The law is NOT alongside people who conceal. Juries are extremely tough with the issue. You have to have good evidence to need to shoot/stab someone.

[despect]

Not true at all. The law is NOT alongside people who conceal. Juries are extremely tough with the issue. You have to have good evidence to need to shoot/stab someone.

Sometimes you cant fully prove it so its literally your word to go by.

[Landon]

Sometimes you cant fully prove it so its literally your word to go by.

If there's not enough evidence just as well to prove that you're guilty of murder with malicious intent, then you don't go to jail either.

[despect]

If there's not enough evidence just as well to prove that you're guilty of murder with malicious intent, then you don't go to jail either.

So if theres no prove you kinda get away with it?

[Landon]

So if theres no prove you kinda get away with it?

This is on a whole different topic, keep in mind. If there's no proof for murder then you get away with it. So let's say you stab someone and the jury votes in your favor - you get away with it. Rare that there is no proof but you get it.

Now let's say you stab someone and there were witnesses and all, someone had pulled a gun or a knife on you and you kill them. You're let off because it is completely legal to defend yourself.

[hungryfront]

You wouldn't need guns to defend yourself if nobody had a gun in the first place though? "Give everyone a gun so they can defend themselves from other people with guns"

However I do see there COULD be a need for some self defence "weapons" in SOME areas, but less lethal. Pepper spray should do the trick, or at the very most a Taser.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[Landon]

You wouldn't need guns to defend yourself if nobody had a gun in the first place though? "Give everyone a gun so they can defend themselves from other people with guns"

However I do see there COULD be a need for some self defence "weapons" in SOME areas, but less lethal. Pepper spray should do the trick, or at the very most a Taser.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

Again. Criminals will always find a way to get their hands on a weapon. The fantasy that "guns should not be here" is false. Never gonna happen even if the government sent police forces to raid houses.

[scottish]

But that's what your saying about guns. Your saying guns shouldn't be banned because criminals will get hold of them still and then people will be weaponless. It's my belief a lot of the school massacres would never have happened if guns weren't allowed. Surely it's better to try everything to prevent people getting weapons than nothing at all.

Absolutely correct, would be a hell of a lot less shootings if that were the case.

- - - Updated - - -


Police take time to respond. (Aka get dispatched, accelerate, finally arrive at the location) That's normally 3 to 5 mins here. That's a lot of dead people my friend. :/ A person strolling around the streets with a concealed weapon does not take time to respond. Multiple good people = good outcome.

How many innocent people have died to shooting in the USA again?

Again, for school shootings half of the time it's teenagers grabbing their parents weapons. They wouldn't have them so.

[Landon]

Again, for school shootings half of the time it's teenagers grabbing their parents weapons. They wouldn't have them so.

Source please

[scottish]

Again. Criminals will always find a way to get their hands on a weapon. The fantasy that "guns should not be here" is false. Never gonna happen even if the government sent police forces to raid houses.

As someone had previously mentioned, drug addicts will always find a way to get their hands on drugs let's make them legal?

Why not? the people who want to get them are going to get them either way?

[Landon]

As someone had previously mentioned, drug addicts will always find a way to get their hands on drugs let's make them legal?

Why not? the people who want to get them are going to get them either way?

Legal in what way? If they became legal to sell at shops and all, they'd be taxed by the government which means they would endorse the selling.

[scottish]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/10/how_roseburg_newtown_and_other_mass_shooters_got_t heir_guns.html
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/most-guns-mass-shootings-obtained-legally
http://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/
http://www.vpc.org/studies/wgunint.htm
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/more-80-percent-guns-used-mass-shootings-obtained-legally-n474441
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/18/11-essential-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/?utm_term=.7946ae1d300d#8
https://www.bustle.com/articles/114372-this-shocking-infographic-about-mass-shootings-shows-just-how-many-legal-guns-are-involved

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCC_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marysville_Pilchuck_High_School_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Monica_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazard_Community_and_Technical_College#2013_shooti ng_incident
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oikos_University_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chardon_High_School_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Illinois_University_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Colorado_YWAM_and_New_Life_shootings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Nickel_Mines_School_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Lake_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Andrew_Williams
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westside_Middle_School_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurston_High_School_shooting

Feel free to go have a read on all of them.

Ultimately the vast majority of weapons used in mass murder is legal.

- - - Updated - - -


Legal in what way? If they became legal to sell at shops and all, they'd be taxed by the government which means they would endorse the selling.

Make them VAT exempt in that case no tax is charged on the drugs and the government aren't 'endorsing' them?

Legal in the only way that legal means, not illegal.

[Landon]

Feel free to go have a read on all of them.

"half of the time it's teenagers grabbing their parents weapons"

This is what I asked for a source on. Where did you find that 'over half' it is teenagers grabbing parent's weapons?

[scottish]

"half of the time it's teenagers grabbing their parents weapons"

This is what I asked for a source on. Where did you find that 'over half' it is teenagers grabbing parent's weapons?

and I provided you reading material to go research it further as I lack the time to go find the exact statistics.

Also, you seem to be missing half of my posts.

[Landon]

and I provided you reading material to go research it further as I lack the time to go find the exact statistics.

Also, you seem to be missing half of my posts.

Then stop making claims you can't find evidence for lol

[scottish]

Okay 'Again, for school shootings some of the time it's teenagers grabbing their parents weapons. They wouldn't have them so.'

Also, you seem to be missing half of my posts.

[peteyt]

Absolutely correct, would be a hell of a lot less shootings if that were the case.

- - - Updated - - -



How many innocent people have died to shooting in the USA again?

Again, for school shootings half of the time it's teenagers grabbing their parents weapons. They wouldn't have them so.

Exactly. Landon talks about sources - the uk is the biggest source. Yes there are gangs with guns but generally they are shooting other gangs. When people kill eachother over here it rarely is a gun because they aren't as easy to get hold of. If guns were made legal in the uk I can imagine rather than helping crime we'd see a massive rise.

[DaimC]

In my opinion it should be legal, it can create a feel of safeness when you can carry a weapon of some sort. But you never really know what could happen, so i understand why people are against it

[RuthlessSlayer-]

No I personally feel that if it does become legal then we will have those really stupid people who will go round causing chaos. So it's a no for me.

[Yupt]

If you think the correct answer is yes, go watch Michael Moore's 'Bowling for Columbine'.

Idiots with weapons is just as stupid as it sounds.