Organ Donation

[Narnat,]

Should people who are on the waiting list for organ transplants be prioritised if they are on the Organ Donor register over someone who isn't?

[TinyFroggy]

In my humble opinion, it's a good idea to do so. It would be a great motivator to increase the number of the organ donors.

Since this is a debate, I'm gonna keep it that simple XD while waiting for counters. Lol.

[YellowBelli]

I dont think so, i doubt there’s many occassions when all other factors would be equal (such as age, health & compatibility) I vaguely remember reading that people should automatically be on the donor register unless they opt out. I like that idea.

P.s I’m on the register!

[TinyFroggy]

I dont think so, i doubt there’s many occassions when all other factors would be equal (such as age, health & compatibility) I vaguely remember reading that people should automatically be on the donor register unless they opt out. I like that idea.

P.s I’m on the register!

Care to explain more Fel?

I agree with the idea of automatic registration but why is this idea unsuitable too? From what I can see, it's a positive reinforcement.

[YellowBelli]

Care to explain more Fel?

I agree with the idea of automatic registration but why is this idea unsuitable too? From what I can see, it's a positive reinforcement.
Imo ..

Well I imagine many choose not to be a donor for various reasons.. religion could be one. I just feel it would be rather unfair to deny a life saving transplant to someone, because they didnt want to be a donor at the time. I mean, what if someone was in a coma and had just never had the chance to decide if the wanted to be a donor or not?

Tbh, it took me a while to decide to be a donor... the idea of someone cutting me up & taking all my organs before the coroner could present my body to family for whatever type of funeral I decide on.. well its a hard decision to make.

[TinyFroggy]

We are not denying a person's right for the organ. We are just favoring those who would've done the same thing. It makes sense.
If you are a dying man, it's your turn for the organ, go for it. But if there's also another man who is dying but he is an organ donor, he should be favored instead of you. Life is about taking and giving.

And furthermore, why would someone be selective in their religion? I don't think that there is any particular religion has an opposite stance regarding this case, meaning they allow people to receive organs but not to donate? Well, that is quite a selfish value to be instilled.

[RuthOnToast]

We are not denying a person's right for the organ. We are just favoring those who would've done the same thing. It makes sense.
If you are a dying man, it's your turn for the organ, go for it. But if there's also another man who is dying but he is an organ donor, he should be favored instead of you. Life is about taking and giving.

And furthermore, why would someone be selective in their religion? I don't think that there is any particular religion has an opposite stance regarding this case, meaning they allow people to receive organs but not to donate? Well, that is quite a selfish value to be instilled.

These so many other factors that goes into picking who gets priority of the donated organ that allowing someone to get it just because they were wouldn't even work. We shouldn't give priority to someone just because they would donate their organs to some people it could be a big dedication to donate.

And these religion that not only don't donate but wouldn't take the donation either. If im right i think it's jews that can't even accept a blood. It's not selfish to follow your religion.

[TinyFroggy]

First, if you read closely, you would notice the argument I made for the religion is against what Fel's said. Basically, if they aren't taking any donations, so we're not addressing them in this situation at all.

Second, why shouldn't we prioritize someone who's giving a huge dedication towards healthcare of a nation? It is not counter intuitive to justify that those who gives more, should earn more.

And being a part of healthcare system, I understand about the factors contributing towards how the organs harvested be made available to. But since this debate is about should we prioritize or not those who enlist themselves as organ donors, therefore we are talking about after all those necessary points are factored in.

Notice why I used the word 'necessary'? It's because of the example you gave regarding how it wouldn't even work, well, it is not the case we are trying to debate about. Because for you to be eligible to receive the donation, you have to be compatible with organ being donated. Those are the necessary requirements. It is not up for debate because it's a contraindication for us to match up unsuitable organ to the receiver.

[RuthOnToast]

First, if you read closely, you would notice the argument I made for the religion is against what Fel's said. Basically, if they aren't taking any donations, so we're not addressing them in this situation at all.

Second, why shouldn't we prioritize someone who's giving a huge dedication towards healthcare of a nation? It is not counter intuitive to justify that those who gives more, should earn more.

And being a part of healthcare system, I understand about the factors contributing towards how the organs harvested be made available to. But since this debate is about should we prioritize or not those who enlist themselves as organ donors, therefore we are talking about after all those necessary points are factored in.

Notice why I used the word 'necessary'? It's because of the example you gave regarding how it wouldn't even work, well, it is not the case we are trying to debate about. Because for you to be eligible to receive the donation, you have to be compatible with organ being donated. Those are the necessary requirements. It is not up for debate because it's a contraindication for us to match up unsuitable organ to the receiver.

Firstly, i only read your reply it were too much effort to read the rest

Second, in many cases giving people priority because of their contribution works but in the case of someones live i don't think it should be. Its your body and your organs not a tesco club card.

And finally there are many other factors regarding who gets the donation that just being compatible.

[TinyFroggy]

Firstly, i only read your reply it were too much effort to read the rest

Second, in many cases giving people priority because of their contribution works but in the case of someones live i don't think it should be. Its your body and your organs not a tesco club card.

And finally there are many other factors regarding who gets the donation that just being compatible.

I don't find anything wrong with giving priority over someone who benefits the healthcare more. Yes, it's not a tesco club card. But even if it is, you are not paying with money, you are paying way more; your pledge for organ donation. Something money can't compete with. Saying that, they have all the right and are deserving.

Do elaborate more on this 'other factors' you are talking about cause I still don't get you. This debate is whether we should or should not prioritize someone who donated organ to receive one over someone who doesn't. Like I said before, it is only make sense to assume that this debate take place in between two people who are both eligible for the organ donation. These other factors I assume, should already be cleared from the beginning because it doesn't make sense for us to give organs to someone who will not benefits from it. So in the end, if we have two very identical case, both are eligible for the organ donation, both aren't in a case of acute attack, both didn't took alcohol in the needed time, both benefits from the organs in a fair result and both with almost the same prognosis, to which would you give the organ to? The one on donor list or the one who is not on the donor list but has pledged to become an organ donor in the future? This is the case we're talking about in this debate.

[YellowBelli]

After all the requirements being met, & with two matches between someone who has opted in and someone who has not, i’d want the one who has been on the waiting list longest to have the organ.

[TinyFroggy]

This is the contradiction point. Just because someone is on the list longest, doesn't necessarily mean he has all the right.

Just imagine why the list is even there on the first place? Because we have not enough supply of organs being donated. Why? Because of this selfish people who expect to be helped but not to contribute. And of course, even how bad a person is, we will still do our best to treat. Regardless.

But seeing an opportunity to create a larger supply of organs in the future by giving incentives to people who pledges as organ donators, why are we not leaning towards that? Supply issue will be decreasing with time and more people could be saved.

[RuthOnToast]

This is the contradiction point. Just because someone is on the list longest, doesn't necessarily mean he has all the right.

Just imagine why the list is even there on the first place? Because we have not enough supply of organs being donated. Why? Because of this selfish people who expect to be helped but not to contribute. And of course, even how bad a person is, we will still do our best to treat. Regardless.

But seeing an opportunity to create a larger supply of organs in the future by giving incentives to people who pledges as organ donators, why are we not leaning towards that? Supply issue will be decreasing with time and more people could be saved.

I don't think we should be using peoples organs as a rewards system. Making an opt out method would be a much better way of getting more people to be donations and i really don't think we should be calling them selfish, some people are happy to do it others not so much and we should respect that.

It's so hard to find an orange that will match that i don't think you will often be in the case that 2 people are in the same place. The organ will just go the first person on the priority list that is not based on who wants to donate or not.

[TinyFroggy]

First of all, opting out is another discussion that we could consider. Yes, I do agree it could provide more organs in comparison and I don't deny that. But turning organ donation into rewards system could also contribute to the increase.

I am sorry if the word 'selfish' may offend them but from my standpoint, that is what I see. Why would they not be happy to donate organs (which mostly are harvested after their death) but are happy to receive one? We live in a society where give and take is all what it is.

Lastly, I just wanna make it clear. Not all cases the organ will be very hard to find matches. It's only the matter of urgency, blood type and size. It's mostly a matter of supply. It's very common to find two similar patients of similar urgency and compatibility (not necessarily the same medical condition) waiting for one organ. And in this case, I think those who are willing to give should be put ahead first.

[RuthOnToast]

First of all, opting out is another discussion that we could consider. Yes, I do agree it could provide more organs in comparison and I don't deny that. But turning organ donation into rewards system could also contribute to the increase.

I am sorry if the word 'selfish' may offend them but from my standpoint, that is what I see. Why would they not be happy to donate organs (which mostly are harvested after their death) but are happy to receive one? We live in a society where give and take is all what it is.

Lastly, I just wanna make it clear. Not all cases the organ will be very hard to find matches. It's only the matter of urgency, blood type and size. It's mostly a matter of supply. It's very common to find two similar patients of similar urgency and compatibility (not necessarily the same medical condition) waiting for one organ. And in this case, I think those who are willing to give should be put ahead first.

Still can't see how you can use peoples organs as a reward it seems morally wrong. Anyway it's not up to you if you want to donate your organs you can sign up to donate but it will be down to your family if to donate once you have passed.

They don't match the orange by the blood group im not a dr but i know they do test the tissue as well.

[Jimbob66]

No.

[lawrawrrr]

I think it’s a hugely personal and difficult decision to give up a part of your body to a stranger.

I personally have signed up to all except corneas because I personally would rather help others (eyes are just... too personal imo) than burn everything away!


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[TinyFroggy]

I don't get why it's a bad idea at all.

Fact is, not everyone in this world is willing to do kindness without hopes of return. By doing this, we are nudging this group of people too. For greater good.

Looking at a trend (at least the one I'm looking in Malaysia), when you donate your blood, you will gain certain special benefits by the government throughout your healthcare. And due to this fact, there are more and more people donating blood by years. This is a good trend. And believing that this trend should be implemented within the organ donations, I, strongly agree with the motion.

[RuthOnToast]

I don't get why it's a bad idea at all.

Fact is, not everyone in this world is willing to do kindness without hopes of return. By doing this, we are nudging this group of people too. For greater good.

Looking at a trend (at least the one I'm looking in Malaysia), when you donate your blood, you will gain certain special benefits by the government throughout your healthcare. And due to this fact, there are more and more people donating blood by years. This is a good trend. And believing that this trend should be implemented within the organ donations, I, strongly agree with the motion.

I donate blood every 4 months with no rewards? (mean if you count the custard creams as an reward then yes) i don't expect to be rewarded and we shouldn't be getting health care benefits for one i think it makes it unfair on those who can't medically donate blood

You are right these many people who don't want to be kind and expect to get everything but it turns of organ donation it's different. you could the kindest person around and still not like the idea of your organs going in another person. you seem think that it's a game sort of like sharing your toys as a kid. but its not a game these are our bodies and our organs but as i said before you don't pick if you donate your organs if its after your death.

[TinyFroggy]

What happens after your death, doesn't really concern much tbh. You can try your best to make sure all those organs will be donated and that's all you need to care about. Beyond that, it doesn't matter.

I do not in any slight way think that this is a game. And for that reason, I seek to put an alternative, for more people to donate organs because obviously we are lacking of them. And this is one of the way with benefits outweighing the harm.

[RuthOnToast]

What happens after your death, doesn't really concern much tbh. You can try your best to make sure all those organs will be donated and that's all you need to care about. Beyond that, it doesn't matter.

I do not in any slight way think that this is a game. And for that reason, I seek to put an alternative, for more people to donate organs because obviously we are lacking of them. And this is one of the way with benefits outweighing the harm.

But if you donate oranges after your death it's not up to you and you. we shouldn't be rewarding people for this what if you can't donate your oranges? do you get less priority? What about people who don't like the idea of their family being kept alive while they remove the organs?

[TinyFroggy]

Let's say if we have a case of a man who wants to give all his possessions to charity after his death. Do we say he do the deeds or not? As long as he handled all the papers, well, we'll consider he did his part. He has all the intentions and did what needed to be done. Does he not deserve to be considered as a kind and a generous person? What happens to the money after that, is no longer under his control. Maybe some of his family will try to go to court and claim their rights from this kind dead man. Maybe no one actually do anything but the money is stolen by the one who supposed to handle out to charity. Maybe when the money go to this charities, the manager of this charities embezzled the money. So what? What happens after his death, is no longer beyond his control and we should consider the act of someone based on what he did during his life and the fact is, at the moment of his last few days, he decided to donate money to charities. And that's it.

Same goes with the situation of organ donating.

And just because your family doesn't like your decision, it doesn't mean they are right. It's a common sense to all globally that organ donating is something pure and nice to do.

[RuthOnToast]

Let's say if we have a case of a man who wants to give all his possessions to charity after his death. Do we say he do the deeds or not? As long as he handled all the papers, well, we'll consider he did his part. He has all the intentions and did what needed to be done. Does he not deserve to be considered as a kind and a generous person? What happens to the money after that, is no longer under his control. Maybe some of his family will try to go to court and claim their rights from this kind dead man. Maybe no one actually do anything but the money is stolen by the one who supposed to handle out to charity. Maybe when the money go to this charities, the manager of this charities embezzled the money. So what? What happens after his death, is no longer beyond his control and we should consider the act of someone based on what he did during his life and the fact is, at the moment of his last few days, he decided to donate money to charities. And that's it.

Same goes with the situation of organ donating.

And just because your family doesn't like your decision, it doesn't mean they are right. It's a common sense to all globally that organ donating is something pure and nice to do.

The rules are that it's up the next of kin to decide if they donate their families oranges. I've know idea what your on about? ever heard of a will? if they don't say in their will that they wanted to money to go to a charity or didn't even write a will then all their belongings will then go to the next of kin.

I get you think that organ donate is not a big deal to you but for some people it is. this isn't donating money this is donating a part of you.

[TinyFroggy]

An organ donor registration has a legal document that can't be reversed after death even by family members. However, since you said that the decision after the death lies upon the family, I assume family fighting with the court and somehow win (even though most likely they will not). Same goes to someone having a will? It's a legal document and can't be reversed (but family members can go to court and fight). That's the similarity.

Or do you not know that the organ donation decision is bind by the law, legally?

[Blance]

Heated Topic! ahahhaha

as soon as i saw this thread i had to jump in!
i few years back just before Christmas (i always wait until last minute for these kind of things)
i had to go get a new passport, after washing mine in the washing machine -.-...
the only issue was, the passport was the only form of ID i had at the time. Considering i lost my wallet a few months prior to that as well as everything in it as well as almost $1000 cash... but im getting off topic.

before i go get my passport i need a new health card and age of majority card, healthcare in Canada being free and all there was a small registration fee but that's it,
i filled out the paper handed to me, and brought it up to the desk, the lady there tells me she has a few more questions to ask before posing for the wretched ID photos.
one being "would you consider being a organ donor?"
i obviously wasn't expecting a question like that, and i was kinda caught off guard... a little shook if you will.
i contemplated it for a long time. she told me to take all the time i need. it felt like i was standing there thinking about it for hours, when really it was prob 5-10 mins. still... a long time to stand there waiting for a answer right? :P
i thought about how it would benefit someone else, if something were to ever happen to me and someone needed something, a heart, kidney, liver, lung (prob not, im a smoker :P) whatever it may be.
im obviously not using them anymore and id rather someone else live, and be happy and healthy, then just let those vital, in demand necessities die with me. seems almost inconsiderate no?
but i also know there are organs which can be donated to science, things like "Bodies: The Exhibition" or "Body worlds" where real people donated their bodies and organs to science and its a exhibit you walk through.. that alone kinda scared me away.
to be propped up on display for all to see years after you pass away.
but the positive being the ability and chance to save someone, ultimately out weighed the negative of wondering what they will do this these "donations" i wont see it, i wont hear it.
so Out Of Sight Out Of Mind. i guess.

[TinyFroggy]

Well, that's not an argument but I really love your story on how you are torn in between donating and not. I'm glad you make a good choice ;)