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Originally Posted by
-:Undertaker:-
But I have argued the total opposite. I have always argued that we should shape the parties, or the parties must be eliminated and replaced. I have voted Ukip since I could legally start voting - I did not allow the structure of the two main parties to shape my voting, rather I used my vote in the knowledge that I was both voting for policies I agreed with but also that any success that party enjoyed would turn the screws on the major parties. It was only a matter of time before the Conservative Party either buckled (as it did) and granted a referendum on Europe, or split over the issue.
Now however, the two major parties have fundamental policy disagreements with one another. And that's good. Granted, this won't be for the taste of everyone but they too have the option of voting for smaller parties to exert pressure on the main parties just as I did with Ukip. The May Conservative Party and Corbyn Labour Party offer two completely different choices, do you not agree?
You're saying all of this as if UKIP was a significant reason for the change. There is no hard evidence to suggest UKIP had any real influence on there being a referendum.
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The bulk of the electorate rejected these parties. It can hardly be good for democracy that no matter how badly a party performs in the polls after being in office, it remains in office? Meet the new boss... same as the old boss.
Under FPTP the disliked Prime Minister is ejected the following day with the removal vans turning up. It's a good system.
The bulk of the electorate rejected the Conservatives. I really don't see how you can argue against this.
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You'll never get a manifesto that you are in complete agreement with. But with two different parties, at least there is a choice whereas prior to this we were faced with two identical 'centre' (which just means centre-left in reality) parties in complete agreement with one another, with many of our laws coming from Brussels anyway. A non-choice.
The next election will be a choice like we have not had for many years. Under full sovereignty with a real left+right.
You're right, there is never going to be a manifesto I completely agree with, but that's not really a good reason to artificially limit my choice down to a 2 party system.
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I won't be blackmailed by the SNP or Sinn Fein into making certain decisions for this country.
Both detest the notion of a strong independent Britain as it in the end cripples their dream of an 'independent' Scotland within Europe or a 32-county Irish republic within Europe. EU membership fuelled these movements and the sooner that cord is severed the better. Ask yourself why these two movements so avidly support EU membership: because it helped in their ultimate goal of dissolving Britain as a nation state.
I don't really see how the EU is the cause of this? It seems like you're just using it as another baseless claim to support your anti EU agenda, unless you have evidence to prove me wrong. I mean, the issue surrounding NI predates the EU and the SNP want EU membership because they think it's in Scotland's best interest. There's no conspiracy here. If there was, why are we not seeing other European countries having similar problems?
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PR would limit their power in that we'd face months of wrangling and governments collapsing every couple of years.
Yes, look at all these governments collapsing everywhere. It's utter chaos! Governments don't collapse every couple of years under a coalition, stop exaggerating. There's no precedent for this and none for months of wrangling. It took 5 days in 2010 to form government and lasted the full 5 years with no real issues.
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One way it is more democratic is that you have your own constituency member of Parliament for your own area, accountable to you the electorate. When you vote in FPTP, you vote for the candidate and the local party association nominates that candidate. Under PR you're given a list compiled by the party HQ where the top flunkies are placed at the top and are subsequently elected and who are accountable to large geographical areas, much like MEPs.
How many people can name their MEPs? How high is turnout for EU elections? It turns people off voting.
That's false. Under certain PR voting systems, that is the method. There are many methods of PR, or close to PR, that you vote directly e.g. STV.