Shootings and explosion in Paris

[-:Undertaker:-]

Once again, 5% of Muslims (or refugees) are not radicals...

Indeed, the figure is higher as I keep pointing out using scientific polling and research. Here's another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim...errorism#Polls

In a 2007 Pew Research poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified, in Europe.

64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.

The same polling results in Islamic countries (where the 'refugees' are coming from) are much higher, for example...

45% of Muslims in Egypt believed it could never be justified, 25% believed it could be justified rarely, 20% sometimes, and 8% thought it could be justified often.

Those are terrifying figures and that research was undertaken back in 2007, before the events of the so-called Arab Spring.

I would suspect a sharp increase on 2007 given events in Turkey, Syria, Yemen, Bahrain, Jordan, Iraq and throughout the region.

Why would I be scared of Islam? I'm flying to one of stricter Islamic countries in a little over a month. Hardly the sign of someone whom is scared.

If you are going to one of the stricter Islamic countries then that should be a lesson as to why their leaders are so harsh. The likes of Assad, al-Sauds and the Egyptian military know better than anyone else what their own people are like and how to keep them in line: hence why nearly all Islamic countries are ruled with an iron fist.

[Empired]

It worries me that everyone is taking these statistics like they've come straight from the mouth of God. Statistics are great at showing answers to closed questions but are total rubbish in complicated, intricate situations like these. Of course plenty of people may be saying they feel some sympathy with attackers - you can't explain your entire mindset on a huge issue if the question you asked just said "do you sympathise with these men? A: yes / B: no".

It may be of some use if you try to apply your brain when looking at stats instead of just copying, pasting and saying I TOLD YOU SO.

For that specific example I would like to say that sympathising with the reasons for an action does not mean you agree with the action. I can sympathise with a woman cheating on her husband because he's stopped taking any interest in her but that does not make me a cheater, nor does it mean I condone adultery. In the same way, I can sympathise with the reasons a terrorist goes out and bombs a city without becoming a terrorist myself or thinking that terrorism is a good thing.

(Side note: isn't the bolding a little much? We're all capable of using our eyes and reading, thanks for the concern. Patronising the person you disagree with to make their posts look less valid is petty and unnecessary. Not to mention pointless.)

I'd have more to say on this but I don't really fancy sharing my opinion and being torn down by the use of BOLDING AND UNDERLINING (shock horror!), and I don't really think it would make a difference. But I did want to add what I said above.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Isn't it interesting the lengths people like @Empired; will go to in order to avoid the grim reality even when multiple sources confirm these attitudes.

If you wanted a practical lesson rather than the academic evidence I have provided over and over in how muslim people view certain things in an extreme way, then you could always go to a muslim country and stand in the town square and either [a] engage in a gay kiss, [b] mock the Koran or [c] start handing out Jewish literature. And see what happens to you at the hands of the local population. Or you could just read accounts from gay and Jewish people in France, as I have, as to what life is becoming like for them as Islam strengthens in France.

I suspect what happens if you did any of the above would broadly correlate with the research on the matter..... hence why you wouldn't dare try it.

[buttons]

as much as i find it annoying that dan and others jump to "immigration!! muslims!!" i'm finding it REALLY tiring how time and time again, an atrocity is carried out but the focus is on "protecting" innocent muslims. like hell yes, there's no need for islamaphobia but am i the only one who finds it so disrespectful that the focus turns away from the victims EVERY time and straight onto defending or condemning muslims/islam? if i lost a loved one to a terrorist attack and the first thing someone said to me was "don't blame all ____" or whatever, i would be so angry because the focus should be on the victims and sympathizing with the family, not innocent muslims (yeah i know they suffer consequences but clearly they're not the victims AT THAT POINT).

its like most people go to the extreme of condemning or defending when you can do both at the same time.

thats my view which im sure someone could somehow skew and make out that i'm a racist.

[Inseriousity.]

It would be nice. The problem is you'd have to ignore the "immigration!! muslims!!" for that to happen and it's very difficult to ignore it. I did actually do it for dan's first provocative post in this thread for that very reason and only jumped in cos dom's posts made him look like he was bashing his head against the keyboard. Felt bad for him lol. I'm rather tired of the immigration debate because of how extreme it is.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yeah let's just ignore the immigration bit when we already know at least one of them has come in via invitation of the EU and Angela Merkel.

@Inseriousity.; I was arguing with you all not to allow hundreds of thousands of them in and you all couldn't contain your glee a few weeks back, calling me a racist, a bigot and inhumane over and over again. Now that the consequences of your stupidity comes apparent - 127 French people laying cold and lifeless in the morgue because their government was powerless to control who comes into the country and who goes out - you just wish the topic would go away? No, never.

The Polish government agrees with me.

Poland's new govt rejects migrant quotas after #ParisAttacks https://t.co/6FnuLaw1N9 pic.twitter.com/KtvR82Iw7Z

— RT (@RT_com) November 14, 2015

[Inseriousity.]

I'm rather tired of the immigration debate because of how extreme it is.

@Inseriousity.; I was arguing with you all not to allow hundreds of thousands of them in and you all couldn't contain your glee a few weeks back, calling me a racist, a bigot and inhumane over and over again. Now that the consequences of your stupidity comes apparent - 127 French people laying cold and lifeless in the morgue because their government was powerless to control who comes into the country and who goes out - you just wish the topic would go away? No, never.

I didn't post in that thread cos of the above. I never said I wish the topic would go away. That would be dumb, I know it's not but I can choose not to participate in a debate where everyone just repeats themselves over and over again.

[dbgtz]

Interesting to see people actually engage in some kind of dialogue as opposed to the standard "thoughts are with the family". Would have been nicer to see it a tad more civil, perhaps.

The impact this will have over the coming months, maybe years, will be interesting. It's surprising to see, at least as far as I've seen, that this hasn't really impacted on peoples opinions on the refugees so much (but that's a very small and selective group and there could well be a silent majority). I suspect, however, the governments of Europe will become less tolerable of the refugees which is no issue to me personally since I've always been in favour in (properly) assisting countries like Jordan instead, which we do and should hopefully continue to do. But, on the flip side, we will probably end up spending more on the military to fight ISIS which will just make things even worse.

Looking slightly closer to home, it will be interesting to see how the government spins this for internet surveillance and other similar authoritarian bills to "protect our safety".

[Joe]

https://habbox.com/v7/all-articles/re...eace-for-paris

Wrote this. RIP all those lost and condolences to those affected.

[FlyingJesus]

There was absolutely nothing saying "save the Muslims!!" or anything of that sort until Dan came in claiming that they should all be stopped at any cost etc., no-one's been bending over backwards taking focus away from the victims except for Dan. The entire thread was exclusively about the events as they were happening until his arrival