State of Management, Hiring, moderation etcetera

[Tintinnabulate]

Given that it's not a staff role, which was made clear, I can post the PM:

Hi Saurav,

Just to let you know that I have decided to remove you from the Welcome Committee. Right now, in its early stages, the Committee needs keen and positive people who strive to ensure that it is successful.

Unfortunately, your recent persistent negativity around the forum and your obvious lack of faith in the ability of the committee to successfully achieve its aims suggests to me that you are no longer entirely suitable to the position.

Kind regards,

Nixt

------

I stand by it, you may disagree, but I can't help but feel that someone who wants the Welcome Committee to be abolished isn't really suitable for it. We want people on the Committee who are keen to make it try and work, and unfortunately you are not in the mindset and that is clear. Anyway, I'm not going to discuss this matter any further. If you disagree with it then you can contact either xxMATTGxx or Jin with an appeal.

Saurav, the feedback you have to offer on the rules (RE: the PM you sent me) is really relevant and important I feel. I'm just going to ask here, can we please not turn this thread into a discussion on your removal from the Committee. It will make absolutely no difference, if you want to complain about it Matt and Jin are there. This thread could well reap some excellent feedback so let's keep it focused on the problems we're currently encountering rather than your removal from the Committee. I'll reiterate: posting about it here is not going to change what happened, and I look forward to your feedback on the rules.

I thought posting any PMs was against the rules without the permission of the other user or has that rule now been abolished too?

Lol you seem to think I want the job back? I did not even ask for it back in my reply. I think my reply actually showed how pathetic you are being and showed you that you do exactly the same thing, yet I do not see you removing yourself? I can post the reply you gave me to it if posting PMs is now allowed and is not related to staff removal. Obviously I will not post the details but you know fully well what I am on about. If you removed me for having a lack of faith then you should resign or fire yourself for the same reason and you know what those reasons are. All it is, is a load of crap.

I only posted anything even remotely related to it as the OP mentioned it.

[Chippiewill]

I don't really think it's because of policy, it's because they have to look at other factors before coming to a decision. It's a bit like the government; you can go to them with a suggestion but that doesn't mean they'll implement it because they have to look at the bigger picture which some members do not always do when they suggest something.

I think I badly worded this one, I need an example but I'm still looking for one, although you basically had a reply to this in the next point.

This isn't really true; I made a thread in the HxHD staff forum with some suggestions about how to improve and I wasn't fired from the team. Personally, I don't think Saurav should have been removed but your statement seems to suggest it happens across all departments but it's an exception to the norm.

Again, badly worded, I meant openly. If Saurav hadn't made a post then I wouldn't have found out, he tried 'somewhat' official channels via the specific forum however that did not succeed presumably so we was forced to make a post in feedback to get an answer.

Hiring of staff isn't rushed and tbh I wish it was quicker! There's a whole lot of hoops to jump through. I'm only comps manager and I imagine that there are a lot more hoops for the moderation department as it's a more "important" job (comps still rule though, woo).

As I posted above, if a mistake has ever been made then a decision was rushed, end of.

I agree. I also think that new members are seen as an 'easy target' by the moderators to boost their logs. It's been a while since I was there but there were a lot of posts with 'this member's signature is too big' etc and 9 times out of ten, they'd be new users because obviously, they don't know the rules that well (I don't know anyone who actually reads their welcome PM or the rules, I certainly didn't anyway!).

These seems like a general consensus and I'm glad it's being addressed, I need some more specific examples of rules which should be reviewed which I'll do later.

Edit:

You can always send a PM to someone regarding staff.

Limited exposure, no one can add their two cents or further evidence. A thread in feedback is 9x more effective at providing evidence and getting answers.

I cannot BELIEVE, people are still moaning about the Apple thing. Seriously stop moaning, and grow up. Apple is doing a fine job, and I wish him all the best. << what he said

Again, not just Apple specifically he was an example that it was rushed, he's a great moderator and I wish him the best but those regulations are there for a reason. However, I do not want this to be a discussion about that, I know it wont be changed and by the event of it occurring I'm sure it wont occur again.

Any recent examples? That was then, this is now. Things have changed considerably! However a thread singling out and criticising a single individual isn't allowed - that is tantamount to bullying, is it not? If I created a thread in spam and said "Corrrr, that Chippiewill is awful" and people started posting saying "yeah I agree blah blah", I think it is fair to say that removing it would be the right thing to do. The same applies when people are quite rudely and indeed unfairly criticising an individual member of Management. A thread saying "XX is crap they need to be fired" is really demeaning and can upset a person who may well have put a lot of effort into Habbox. A much fairer, and correct route to take would be to PM their immediate manager who will always take into account what you have said and deal with it appropriately.

That thread was a poll asking for opinions, because a couple of people disagreed it was closed.

Also, please stop lying to me:

You are fully entitled to criticise management if that is what you want to do.

If you feel that a Moderator is failing their mandate because of the forum they are in, please contact James. I know he would be keen to hear from you.

Why must everything be done via a PM, it's ineffective and it's always passed around so that the decision can be agreed by a whole bunch of staff and disagreed by one person, threads are far more effective.

As I said, singling out individuals is unfair and tantamount to bullying. Remember Management here are not adults and they are volunteers. Criticising them as an individual can often upset them, considerably, and we won't allow that. You can however complain about individuals via the relevant channels. We're not going to allow you to post a thread saying "Nixt is an awful AGM!", because that might upset people and in addition these results in people jumping on the ol' bandwagon and unjustifiably being rude to people.

That is basically pointless posting, what I am for is posting reasons why someone should not have that job in public, Politicians are in the firing line the entire time, why not management.

Only the Forum and General Management can reply, and this is because it is a complaint. When you complain to say, your ISP, do you invite all the other customers to join in? Complaints are problems individuals are experiencing. If it is a broad issue, they can post it in feedback.

http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=668192
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=667610
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=666750
All broad issues, it should be management's responsibility to move these threads if appropriate, which, in most cases they are.

[Tintinnabulate]

Also I like how you removed me for "having a lack of faith" etc, yet you and Jamesy have ignored my point every time I have said if you had faith, why did you (or any other members) not bother replying to my post in the WC Members only forum which contained ideas on how to develop it?

It showed me that YOU had no faith and clearly could not be bothered with it as it had no reply for over three days hence I was forced to make the thread I made.

[AgnesIO]

Also I like how you removed me for "having a lack of faith" etc, yet you and Jamesy have ignored my point every time I have said if you had faith, why did you (or any other members) not bother replying to my post in the WC Members only forum which contained ideas on how to develop it?

It showed me that YOU had no faith and clearly could not be bothered with it as it had no reply for over three days hence I was forced to make the thread I made.

Or it showed they were busy. Oh no, surely not.

I think I badly worded this one, I need an example but I'm still looking for one, although you basically had a reply to this in the next point.


Again, badly worded, I meant openly. If Saurav hadn't made a post then I wouldn't have found out, he tried 'somewhat' official channels via the specific forum however that did not succeed presumably so we was forced to make a post in feedback to get an answer.


As I posted above, if a mistake has ever been made then a decision was rushed, end of.


These seems like a general consensus and I'm glad it's being addressed, I need some more specific examples of rules which should be reviewed which I'll do later.

I am bloody pleased a mistake was made, if we are still calling it a mistake. Mistakes can be made however long you spend on something. Look at the glitch on Gran Turismo 5 where the track disappears - and they are paid professionals, who spent years making it!

[-:Undertaker:-]

I would agree to an extent and i'll give an example - the thread questioning me over the Samovar crisis was closed for no apparent reason, i'm not above criticism and do not expect to be hence why I replied to the thread by making another thread and strangely that was not closed (because I suspect I am staff). The probem with this though, is that it allows staff who are in the wrong to be above criticism.

[Nixt]

The original thread was closed because the Moderator in question was worried it would offend / upset / annoy you, the second thread (your reply) was not closed because it was your reply and this demonstrated you were not in fact offended but wanted to get your point across.

I am sure if you ask 99% of our staff they will tell you that staff do not get away with breaking the rules under my management, be it on the forum or on Habbo.

[Inseriousity.]

Again, badly worded, I meant openly. If Saurav hadn't made a post then I wouldn't have found out, he tried 'somewhat' official channels via the specific forum however that did not succeed presumably so we was forced to make a post in feedback to get an answer.

Even if I posted it in feedback, I wouldn't have been fired because every manager listens to feedback but they don't always have to agree/implement it. If they implemented everything members suggested, the forum would probably be 10 times slower (all those add-ons ) and as someone correctly pointed out in the other thread, these server problems are already making it soooo slow! Although this isn't the fault of management, it unfortunately goes beyond that


As I posted above, if a mistake has ever been made then a decision was rushed, end of.

Not really. It's a big jump to suggest mistake = rush. They could have spent weeks combing through the records of members and could have still missed it. They're not robots and sometimes being tired, having-a-piece-of-homework-that-really-should-have-been-done-a-week-ago or all sorts of reasons could be a reason why they missed it not because they were rushing through it.

Limited exposure, no one can add their two cents or further evidence. A thread in feedback is 9x more effective at providing evidence and getting answers.

Regardless, for the vast majority of cases, people receive a reply quickly. If it's a general complaint then it can be posted in a thread so others can add their opinions but if a complaint gets too personal (lol the thread in the hxhd staff forum I posted, for example, was a bit too personal and that bit of the thread was rightly removed) then I think management have the right to a) close the thread or b) remove the personal insults and leave the constructive feedback.

PS. All this talk of faith makes me think Habbox should just become atheist

[-:Undertaker:-]

The original thread was closed because the Moderator in question was worried it would offend / upset / annoy you, the second thread (your reply) was not closed because it was your reply and this demonstrated you were not in fact offended but wanted to get your point across.

I am sure if you ask 99% of our staff they will tell you that staff do not get away with breaking the rules under my iron fist, be it on the forum or on Habbo.

But thats what I mean - somebody in the wrong would be upset at somebody questioning their decisions, so it means people are then above critcism which is wrong. If anything, Habbox staff and management should be under more criticism than anybody else as we run the site - it makes us accountable to Habbox users.

[Tintinnabulate]

The original thread was closed because the Moderator in question was worried it would offend / upset / annoy you, the second thread (your reply) was not closed because it was your reply and this demonstrated you were not in fact offended but wanted to get your point across.

I am sure if you ask 99% of our staff they will tell you that staff do not get away with breaking the rules under my management, be it on the forum or on Habbo.

I presume ignoring my post means you agree with my latest post.

[Nixt]

But thats what I mean - somebody in the wrong would be upset at somebody questioning their decisions, so it means people are then above critcism. If anything, Habbox staff and management should be under more criticism than anybody else - it makes us all accountable to Habbox users.

Criticism and wrongly accusing someone of fixing rare values a couple of years ago are, in my opinion, inherently different.