Tory Leadership

[dbgtz]

As much as I still can't stand him I think that Gove's played a blinder politically with the drug confession, it means no-one can hold it as a card against him later on and the simpletons in their crack houses have taken it to mean he's one of their own (because obviously everyone who's ever used drugs is part of the same tight knit community for life................) and then pretty much everyone else has just said "yeah so what", very shrewd move on his part. As I say, still think he's a ****wit vampire

not so much questioning the strategy, just the hypocrisy of it all

Raab didn't negotiate it though. Neither did David Davis. If you remember, she called the Cabinet to Chequers and ambushed them with her plan which had been negotiated by Civil Servant Olly Robbens operating on behalf of Number 10. Raab, Davis and Boris all did the principled thing and resigned.

Reuters: a source close to Emmanuel Macron says if the UK fails to pay its Brexit bill then it would be equivalent to sovereign debt default after Boris Johnson told the Sunday Times he would refuse to pay the £39bn 'divorce bill' to the EU unless he can get a better Brexit deal

— Sky News Breaking (@SkyNewsBreak) June 9, 2019

EU starting to go crackers over this. Good. Don't pay them a penny.

It's like how Trump just got Mexico to start patrolling the border. Threatened them with raising tariffs - a week later they caved in.

I'll somewhat accept the Raab argument as he inherited it from Davis, but he was out of his depth and lazy

But you really think Davis was just sidelined lmao
the dude was accused of being lazy on multiple occassions on both sides, turns up without notes, believes we would be heading to berlin to strike a deal (ignorance of how the eu works no matter how you look at it), and completely lied about the impact assessments

“I haven’t looked at the impact of Brexit at all”
*David Davis then proceeds to actually **** giggle* pic.twitter.com/0ILFgMCapR

— James Felton (@JimMFelton) December 6, 2017

They both resigned after the announcement too, never during which you would surely expect if it was being hijacked as you suggested?

these people were given the perfect opportunity to actually put their words into actions but failed

[-:Undertaker:-]

It looks as if it’s 10 candidates then (with no of Tory MPs publicly backing):
Boris Johnson 61
Jeremy Hunt 34
Michael Gove 33
Dominic Raab 23
Sajid Javid 18
Matt Hancock 14
Mark Harper 6
Esther McVey 5
Rory Stewart 5
Andrea Leadsom 2

— John Rentoul (@JohnRentoul) June 10, 2019

IDS backed Boris earlier today. Rudd backed Hunt.

No love for Sam Gyimah?

I think had Sam Gyimah made it onto the ballot and somehow by magic won, then he should have offered himself up for a second vote seeing as he demands it for the rest of the country to vote over and over again until we give the "right" answer. Can't stand him just for that alone.

I'll somewhat accept the Raab argument as he inherited it from Davis, but he was out of his depth and lazy

But you really think Davis was just sidelined lmao
the dude was accused of being lazy on multiple occassions on both sides, turns up without notes, believes we would be heading to berlin to strike a deal (ignorance of how the eu works no matter how you look at it), and completely lied about the impact assessments

You do realise the briefings against Davis, Raab and Johnson all come from inside the May Ministry? Ask yourself why they may hope to discredit those ministers, when those ministers were unhappy with government policy and eventually resigned over it. It wasn't a case of lazy ministers, it was a case of Number 10 and the Civil Service actively undermining the governments own ministers to cook up this surrender document.

They both resigned after the announcement too, never during which you would surely expect if it was being hijacked as you suggested?

these people were given the perfect opportunity to actually put their words into actions but failed

They resigned just after Chequers, yes. From memory it was over that weekend, after lawyers had looked at parts of the text and it could be examined. Sounds pretty sensible to me, and principled that they did quit - unlike Gove, Fox, Leadom and Mordaunt who could've brought this awful PM down earlier had they joined Boris and Davis. Raab then stepped in for a very short tenure, and found the Brexit Secretary was basically teaboy for Number 10's Civil Servant Olly Robbens, and promptly resigned.

The reason why Boris or Raab will likely win against Gove or Hunt is precisely because they resigned. Their principles will be rewarded.

[FlyingJesus]

I like to think I'm not entirely disconnected when it comes to this stuff but can anyone explain to me why Gove and Hunt are in any way popular with anyone? I've never met anyone who actually likes or trusts either of them

[-:Undertaker:-]

I like to think I'm not entirely disconnected when it comes to this stuff but can anyone explain to me why Gove and Hunt are in any way popular with anyone? I've never met anyone who actually likes or trusts either of them

They're popular with some of the MPs, we'll see just how popular they are with the membership against Boris or Raab.

[FlyingJesus]

It's like Eurovision all over again, the wrong people getting the "professional" go ahead

[-:Undertaker:-]

MP support totals at this stage -

NEW: @borisjohnson storming ahead. More than double the support of nearest rival Hunt. On course to make final two. His obstacle was always MPs not members. As cab minister told me: “The only person who can beat Boris is Boris. He has ten days not to go nuclear & blow himself up” https://t.co/0rXywXyTd2

— Beth Rigby (@BethRigby) June 12, 2019

And an interesting ComRes poll out last night.

[dbgtz]

You do realise the briefings against Davis, Raab and Johnson all come from inside the May Ministry? Ask yourself why they may hope to discredit those ministers, when those ministers were unhappy with government policy and eventually resigned over it. It wasn't a case of lazy ministers, it was a case of Number 10 and the Civil Service actively undermining the governments own ministers to cook up this surrender document.

any source not from the guy who's not just going to admit hes lazy and/or a liar (speaking of which i'd love to see your logic on why he said there were plenty of impact assessments then admits there were none)

looking at some other sources, it was a collective government decision
now you can say that he was forced into it or whatever, which basically just shows he has little a spine so how would he negotiate with the eu to begin with?

let's not forget he's a proven liar I would like to emphasise that part
and not the promise to do something but doesnt lie, but says something that is simply untrue

They resigned just after Chequers, yes. From memory it was over that weekend, after lawyers had looked at parts of the text and it could be examined. Sounds pretty sensible to me, and principled that they did quit - unlike Gove, Fox, Leadom and Mordaunt who could've brought this awful PM down earlier had they joined Boris and Davis. Raab then stepped in for a very short tenure, and found the Brexit Secretary was basically teaboy for Number 10's Civil Servant Olly Robbens, and promptly resigned.

The reason why Boris or Raab will likely win against Gove or Hunt is precisely because they resigned. Their principles will be rewarded.

why does it sound sensible to you the law makers cant read legislation they should have been aware of

alexander has no principles, dont just use the real names for people you dont like

[dbgtz]

also if he does have principles i do hope he tries for a new GE (if he becomes pm) considering the roasting he gave gordon brown

[-:Undertaker:-]

Great news tonight, unconstitutional plot to bend the constitutional rules failed tonight.

BREAKING: Cross-party attempt to block No Deal is defeated

298 FOR - 309 AGAINST the idea

— Paul Brand (@PaulBrandITV) June 12, 2019

Dominic Grieve appeared near to tears just then after the vote - says he believes the only way now to stop No Deal is the “nuclear option” of a confidence vote

— Steve Hawkes (@steve_hawkes) June 12, 2019

And current declared numbers for Tory leadership. First round is tomorrow just after midday.

6pm update:

Boris Johnson - 83
Jeremy Hunt - 34
Michael Gove - 32
Dominic Raab - 22
Sajid Javid - 19
Matt Hancock - 16
Mark Harper - 8
Rory Stewart - 7
Esther McVey - 6
Andrea Leadsom - 5

— Sky News Politics (@SkyNewsPolitics) June 12, 2019

any source not from the guy who's not just going to admit hes lazy and/or a liar (speaking of which i'd love to see your logic on why he said there were plenty of impact assessments then admits there were none)

looking at some other sources, it was a collective government decision
now you can say that he was forced into it or whatever, which basically just shows he has little a spine so how would he negotiate with the eu to begin with?

let's not forget he's a proven liar I would like to emphasise that part
and not the promise to do something but doesnt lie, but says something that is simply untrue

It was a collective decision after it was presented to the Cabinet at Chequers, you had to either agree to the Cabinet line on it or resign from position which is exactly what Davis and Boris both did. He wasn't "forced" into it - he point blank was presented with this agreement that the Civil Service and Number 10 had been working on, and was told that was the agreed position.

why does it sound sensible to you the law makers cant read legislation they should have been aware of

alexander has no principles, dont just use the real names for people you dont like

Eh? It was presented at Chequers and that is literally when the Cabinet first laid eyes on the agreement.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Tory leadership first round result:

• Boris Johnson 114
• Jeremy Hunt 43
• Michael Gove 37
• Dominic Raab 27
• Sajid Javid 23
• Matt Hancock 20
• Rory Stewart 19

Eliminated:

• Mark Harper
• Andrea Leadsom
• Esther McVeyhttps://t.co/xkteUOPbM9 pic.twitter.com/CxcnrMLqyH

— BBC Politics (@BBCPolitics) June 13, 2019

That's it: Boris is through to the final ballot, assuming he holds onto his 114. The threshold was 105.

— Tim Stanley (@timothy_stanley) June 13, 2019

BREAKING: Boris Johnson guaranteed to be in the run off for the leadership and is almost certain to be the next prime minister

— Tim Shipman (@ShippersUnbound) June 13, 2019

And a Tory member poll.