March for the Alternative - London - Today

[alexxxxx]

Indeed, and they go bust in the real economy whereas in the government sphere they simply carry on making a loss, supported by the taxpayer.

No, no, no they don't. that is such a simplistic way of thinking things. the company i work for (a very large one) is incredibly inefficient. they could cut a third of the workforce in my area and cut management and be fine. It's the fact that it is a monopoly that allows it to continue.

Most of the regulation we have put on us pours out from the EU, none of it needed - thus you get ridiculous legislation (fruit and tractor seats).

All regulation is seen as stupid by some, if it wasn't then it'd be common practice. Regulation isn't done for fun.

The fact that the government is taxing/raising revenue through business which does not require government orders hurts the real economy, not the nationalised-in-all-but-name companies which you keep mentioning. These companies which rely on government money would go bust yes, but it would allow for the real economy (those productive companies which do not need government orders) to expand, rather than contract under the burden of taxation and regulation which is what they face now.

Steel making companies, brickmakers, engineering firms, paper suppliers, IT services are not 'nationalised-in-all-but-name' companies, yet they rely on some of their trade from government contracts. Cut government spending and they won't go bust but they'll cut their workforce moving them onto welfare.

I said before, if nationalisation worked so well - every major economy would be at it.

Tried it, and it failed.

It's not about nationalisation though is it?

In a way yes, as he isn't working for a productive company - the state sector, although some parts are of course needed (teaching, managers, councillors and so forth) are run at a loss - there is no such thing as 'state money'. The money your Dad earns is taxed from the productive parts.

But you understand that a lot of private sector businesses (which rely at least in part on state employees to function at their current output level). If you then extend these businesses as not being in the 'real economy' then i think you're too blinded by ideology.

Which is what I have said, some parts of the state are needed of course as some things will not ever run at a profit (the Royal Navy) and are needed.

I'm talking about the layers of management we have working for the state and the public sector 'private companies' which rely on the government - all of them need to be cut. The NHS is another example; http://www.metro.co.uk/news/819186-s...ding-to-report; article states that the number of managers in the NHS has risen by 84% in the last decade - in the real economy, this would not happen otherwise the company would face going bust.

..but because it is run by the state (like many other things), it simply goes on sucking the money out of the real economy.

This is surprising that this is your view actually as i'm undecided about public private partnerships. My initial thoughts were that they are a waste of money as i don't buy into the ideology that private companies are totally efficient and would try to run their services as efficiently as possible - yet these partnerships often have bonuses that less money has to come from the government up front.

But i don't think your example of the NHS is a good one, in the USA where most of the 'medical industry' (not that it should be seen an industry in my eyes) is private, costs escalate and service is as good/bad as here. Profit is at a cost to the consumer.

[Ajthedragon]

I didn't read have this thread. However I'm right-wing and agree with the cuts. It doesn't affect my life and when Ed Miliband tells us his alternative only then will I stop backing the ruthless Tories. I don't like the cuts, but they have to be done to improve the economic situation.

The whole make the banks pay thing is ridiculous. They are a huge part of our GDP. I believe instead of paying tax they should use this money to continue to lend.

I look at it like this; if you're in debt you have to cut down on essentials and luxuries, you have no choice. So is government any different?

[FlyingJesus]

I look at it like this; if you're in debt you have to cut down on essentials and luxuries, you have no choice. So is government any different?

Yes because more expenditure helps the economy overall whereas obviously personal finances it's better for you to save if you're in trouble. I'm still not bothered by the cuts but thought I'd point that out

[dbgtz]

I didn't read have this thread. However I'm right-wing and agree with the cuts. It doesn't affect my life and when Ed Miliband tells us his alternative only then will I stop backing the ruthless Tories. I don't like the cuts, but they have to be done to improve the economic situation.

The whole make the banks pay thing is ridiculous. They are a huge part of our GDP. I believe instead of paying tax they should use this money to continue to lend.

I look at it like this; if you're in debt you have to cut down on essentials and luxuries, you have no choice. So is government any different?

Yes, lets cut down on the NHS whilst we waste money on that voting referendum thing, Libya (well it's not wasting really, depending how you look at it) and other military action, and just generally. I literally got told I could not have an operation (which I did have in the end) because there was no money until the new financial year. Then when I was in hospital, the nurse was even saying how they were the ones getting pay freezes. Wow, how clearly fair. The cuts are necessary, yes. But in my opinion MPs over £40,000 should get pay cuts and seriously why are some MPs paid more then the PM? Why are they allowed expenses for their own personal use or just ridiculously? Yeah I'm going to check into a hotel 2 minutes away which will cost thousands all in all. The real problem is, everybody wants pleasing but they only want to please themselves.

I'd agree with the banks if they actually lent out money and stopped giving bonuses which were not deserved.

[Spuds]

Mediocre performance, 29th April will be bigger. Direct action, the only way to get to the state.

[Suspective]

Yes, lets cut down on the NHS whilst we waste money on that voting referendum thing, Libya (well it's not wasting really, depending how you look at it) and other military action, and just generally. I literally got told I could not have an operation (which I did have in the end) because there was no money until the new financial year. Then when I was in hospital, the nurse was even saying how they were the ones getting pay freezes. Wow, how clearly fair. The cuts are necessary, yes. But in my opinion MPs over £40,000 should get pay cuts and seriously why are some MPs paid more then the PM? Why are they allowed expenses for their own personal use or just ridiculously? Yeah I'm going to check into a hotel 2 minutes away which will cost thousands all in all. The real problem is, everybody wants pleasing but they only want to please themselves.

I'd agree with the banks if they actually lent out money and stopped giving bonuses which were not deserved.

I agree with most of this bar the bit about Libya and the Voting Referendum.

I'm all in favor of the principles of the cuts, and I think that in the long-term the cuts will be beneficial to the future of the country and its financial position. There was quite a lot of money wasted during the Labour Administration and its about time that many public bodies are streamlined and expenses are made more stringent.

The voting referendum will not cost a fraction of what its costing to blow up Libyan planes and forces. I'd consider myself to be centre-right in terms of political alignment and I do think we will be seeing some differences in services in the next few years but as long as essential services are being protected and not cut so dramatically there shouldn't be any real problems. There is lots of ways that money could be saved, in both Policing and the NHS.

[Ajthedragon]

Yes, lets cut down on the NHS whilst we waste money on that voting referendum thing, Libya (well it's not wasting really, depending how you look at it) and other military action, and just generally. I literally got told I could not have an operation (which I did have in the end) because there was no money until the new financial year. Then when I was in hospital, the nurse was even saying how they were the ones getting pay freezes. Wow, how clearly fair. The cuts are necessary, yes. But in my opinion MPs over £40,000 should get pay cuts and seriously why are some MPs paid more then the PM? Why are they allowed expenses for their own personal use or just ridiculously? Yeah I'm going to check into a hotel 2 minutes away which will cost thousands all in all. The real problem is, everybody wants pleasing but they only want to please themselves.

I'd agree with the banks if they actually lent out money and stopped giving bonuses which were not deserved.

All standard MP's earn £40,000 or so. Minsters more. It's the council leaders that earn more than the PM, and their budgets have been slashed.

If your friend is lying on the side of the cliff, and you have to pay a fiver to save him, you would right? Now imagine all those at risk in Libya, and moreover , once this has blown over their country will be in ruins and they'll have to pump out more oil to rebuild their infrastructure. With more oil comes cheaper prices, good for everyone!

And if the NHS did your operation then that point is irrelevant? And if the hospital is that disorganised with it's budget then surely the NHS in your area needs restructuring? A hospital doesn't just run out of money. Nearly all public and private sector workers are getting pay freezes at the moment, my parent's haven't have a rise in over 3 years; both work in the private sector. I'm also sure that had my local surgery not payed £5,000 for a fake wall in the waiting room you could of had your operation, or my school on their new footpath.

[Suspective]

All standard MP's earn £40,000 or so. Minsters more. It's the council leaders that earn more than the PM, and their budgets have been slashed.

If your friend is lying on the side of the cliff, and you have to pay a fiver to save him, you would right? Now imagine all those at risk in Libya, and moreover , once this has blown over their country will be in ruins and they'll have to pump out more oil to rebuild their infrastructure. With more oil comes cheaper prices, good for everyone!

And if the NHS did your operation then that point is irrelevant? And if the hospital is that disorganised with it's budget then surely the NHS in your area needs restructuring? A hospital doesn't just run out of money. Nearly all public and private sector workers are getting pay freezes at the moment, my parent's haven't have a rise in over 3 years; both work in the private sector. I'm also sure that had my local surgery not payed £5,000 for a fake wall in the waiting room you could of had your operation, or my school on their new footpath.

MPs earn £64,766. Much more than the average salary.

[Ajthedragon]

Then I stand corrected, although most of them do a lot more than the average worker too. I believe the PM and his cabinet took a pay cut when they took office of around £5,000 each. And their pay is frozen. May I also remind you it's a minority that took advantage of the expenses; most of which are now out of office.

[dbgtz]

If your friend is lying on the side of the cliff, and you have to pay a fiver to save him, you would right? Now imagine all those at risk in Libya, and moreover , once this has blown over their country will be in ruins and they'll have to pump out more oil to rebuild their infrastructure. With more oil comes cheaper prices, good for everyone!

There is already money for the Libyans to rebuild their country, I heard Obama talk about it I think. Anyway that wasn't my point, the point was if they can afford this why cut the NHS?

And if the NHS did your operation then that point is irrelevant? And if the hospital is that disorganised with it's budget then surely the NHS in your area needs restructuring? A hospital doesn't just run out of money. Nearly all public and private sector workers are getting pay freezes at the moment, my parent's haven't have a rise in over 3 years; both work in the private sector. I'm also sure that had my local surgery not payed £5,000 for a fake wall in the waiting room you could of had your operation, or my school on their new footpath.

Not really because it wasn't my local NHS but the county or something like that, like the higher up people I can't remember what it's called. Either way there are a lot of wastage. My school wasted about 5k on a fence and god knows how much the the hole they made in the bank.

Then I stand corrected, although most of them do a lot more than the average worker too. I believe the PM and his cabinet took a pay cut when they took office of around £5,000 each. And their pay is frozen. May I also remind you it's a minority that took advantage of the expenses; most of which are now out of office.

How do they do more then the average worker? They don't really and 60k seems a bit extravagent, I don't actually see what my local MP does, I met her once and she done little to help my situation.