Wales in revolt over mammoth wind farm scheme

[alexxxxx]

I guess like anything it's kinda hard to explain why. You might like the look of a painting, yet still be unable to say why you like it.

I suppose i like how they look sleek, modern and yet still manage to not really take away from the countryside. They fit in with the countryside well i think. They certainly look better than any power plant.

yeah i dont think they look too bad at all.

i think people underestimate the cost of nuclear's long term costs... sure the fuel isn't too expensive, its pretty low-carbon but construction costs, decommissioning costs and waste management costs are huge. There's no 'easy answer' to the energy problem that we will no doubt experience in a decade or two.

[-:Undertaker:-]

yeah i dont think they look too bad at all.

i think people underestimate the cost of nuclear's long term costs... sure the fuel isn't too expensive, its pretty low-carbon but construction costs, decommissioning costs and waste management costs are huge. There's no 'easy answer' to the energy problem that we will no doubt experience in a decade or two.

There is no energy problem, well there will be thanks to the EU and our political class who are obsessed with the notion of global warming climate change which, even it I did believe it to be real - the most sensible thing would be to build coastal defences and so on.

Apparently Poland is working on shale gas and there's breakthroughs in methane energy, all fantastic news concerning energy not to mention that we still have vast gas and oil deposits that remain not only untapped but unexplored, coupled with years worth of coal supplies left (I believe Britain has something like 350 years worth of coal left) and then there's nuclear which as you state is a whole other issue. The idea that we are going to run out of fuel sources though is nothing but scaremongering, something governments are very good at.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ja...gy-revolution/

Here’s some good news for the Poles, who have massive shale gas deposits which they’re dying to exploit (not least so that they no longer need be exposed to economic blackmail from Russia) but which the EU is doing its damnedest to prevent because of its ideologically-driven campaign to impose “renewables” at all costs on its various vassal states.

When the lights go out, we can thank the EU and our spineless politicians for taking any notice of it.

[alexxxxx]

There is no energy problem, well there will be thanks to the EU and our political class who are obsessed with the notion of global warming climate change which, even it I did believe it to be real - the most sensible thing would be to build coastal defences and so on.

Even if we didn't consider global warming, we have an energy crisis - there is simply not enough power output to meet demand. It has nothing to do with global warming or GHG emissions.

Apparently Poland is working on shale gas and there's breakthroughs in methane energy, all fantastic news concerning energy not to mention that we still have vast gas and oil deposits that remain not only untapped but unexplored, coupled with years worth of coal supplies left (I believe Britain has something like 350 years worth of coal left) and then there's nuclear which as you state is a whole other issue. The idea that we are going to run out of fuel sources though is nothing but scaremongering, something governments are very good at.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ja...gy-revolution/

It's true to say there's enough gas and coal in there, but obviously as you'd know, economically it's not viable to exploit it (or the coal mines wouldn't have closed in the 80s!). The real issue is the willingness to exploit the reserves and the ability to combust the reserves. Power stations don't crop up overnight.. Especially nuclear. There will be an energy crisis due to insufficient capacity. Also you have the problem of increasing prices in fossil fuels. There will be a time where renewable energy is the same price as fossil fuel generated power. The big power companies are not in any hurry to exploit more as prices rise and rise.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Even if we didn't consider global warming, we have an energy crisis - there is simply not enough power output to meet demand. It has nothing to do with global warming or GHG emissions.

Do we? oil remains cheap still as does gas, sure its risky with political titans such as Russia hence why we should be making ourselves more self-sufficent as opposed to relying on both Russia and the EU to make our energy policy for us. If you replace coal and gas stations with useless and costly wind and biofuels then yes, we will have an energy crisis.

If you look at a graph of oil prices over the decades taking into account currency devaluation, oil remains very cheap.

It's true to say there's enough gas and coal in there, but obviously as you'd know, economically it's not viable to exploit it (or the coal mines wouldn't have closed in the 80s!). The real issue is the willingness to exploit the reserves and the ability to combust the reserves. Power stations don't crop up overnight.. Especially nuclear. There will be an energy crisis due to insufficient capacity. Also you have the problem of increasing prices in fossil fuels. There will be a time where renewable energy is the same price as fossil fuel generated power. The big power companies are not in any hurry to exploit more as prices rise and rise.

It is not economical as of yet no, but it may soon be as technology improves as seen with deep sea drilling which is improving. Now if you want to solve the problems of extracting gas and oil (if we leave new upcoming shale gas and so forth out of the picture) then you simply work on the technical problems and overcome them.. as opposed to following ridiculous orders from Brussels which say that 20% of our energy must come from renewables which will mean the lights will go out. The problem with coal, oil and gas now is that they are becoming more expensive and monopolised by oil companies who are also on the green bandwagon with government because of government and EU hurdles put infront of opening new power stations.

Renewable energy whatever price it is in its current form does not work, its just a fact. So there's not even a debate to be had over renewables as of yet because the technology does not exist and looks unlikely to come into fruitation anytime soon. As he states this short clip, if there's no wind in February at peak demand - then a wind turbine simply will not turn. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI7MRgcyEtU

[StefanWolves]

I agree it is about OTT, however we need to find alternative ways of getting our power, plus its VERY clean and renewable. But i think theyre being a bit to ambitious at this point.

[GommeInc]

I agree it is about OTT, however we need to find alternative ways of getting our power, plus its VERY clean and renewable. But i think theyre being a bit to ambitious at this point.

Damn expensive to set up, and the damn things need so much maintenance that it slowly becomes economically pointless to have them.

[JackBuddy]

There is no energy problem, well there will be thanks to the EU and our political class who are obsessed with the notion of global warming climate change which, even it I did believe it to be real - the most sensible thing would be to build coastal defences and so on.

Climate change adaptation is far more costly than mitigation, nationally and internationally. Sea walls for example can cost up to £10,000 a metre, don't even offer a complete solution to rising sea levels and are arguably a bigger eye sore than wind farms not to mention the ecological and hydrological effects they can have.

[Adam]

Are the Welsh still stuck in the stone age? Honestly.

[Catzsy]

Are the Welsh still stuck in the stone age? Honestly.

LOL - It is not huge amount of people who are actually against this. It has been blown out of all proportion. They are NYMBYs. I love wind farms myself and are much better than open cast coal mines.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Climate change adaptation is far more costly than mitigation, nationally and internationally. Sea walls for example can cost up to £10,000 a metre, don't even offer a complete solution to rising sea levels and are arguably a bigger eye sore than wind farms not to mention the ecological and hydrological effects they can have.

None of that is happening though i'm afraid so we can all stop worrying.

LOL - It is not huge amount of people who are actually against this. It has been blown out of all proportion. They are NYMBYs. I love wind farms myself and are much better than open cast coal mines.

You enjoy fuel prices going up to subsidise these things? you may enjoy it, because I doubt you pay the bill - the poorest don't and isn't that supposed to be the group of people you pretend to care most about? or do vanity projects come before them? These things are nothing but economic suicide, do not work and the business is very shady with the government forcing energy companies (and thus the taxpayer) to pick up the bill for these things.

..as for the suggestion that these things look pretty and don't ruin the countryside, I look forward to some being placed very close to yourself or Mr Miliband, Clegg and Cameron and we'll then see whether prospective house buyers think the view has been enchanced or totally ruined by these windmills. Somehow, I don't think its just NIMBYs who aren't keen on these - nobody would choose to live next to them.