This just in: George Osborne really doesn't like young people

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think more and more people should be made to pay for the likes of their education and so I applaud the Conservatives efforts on scrapping EMA and now this move concerning university. The fact is that you should pay for your education yourself, and personally given I have just started work I would like to see more people going to university in their mid to late twenties after working in their younger years as it gives you a completely different perspective as well as would solve the problem of many people going to university who simply aren't suited. I'm no fan of the Conservatives - indeed I would rather they would cut foreign aid etc before British benefits - but ideologically it is in the right direction. Iain Duncan Smith means well and hopefully his agenda will be carried through.

I had to laugh seeing @Kardan; criticise the 'stupid' Conservatives on education/university though when he voted Labour.

[Kardan]

I think more and more people should be made to pay for the likes of their education and so I applaud the Conservatives efforts on scrapping EMA and now this move concerning university. The fact is that you should pay for your education yourself, and personally given I have just started work I would like to see more people going to university in their mid to late twenties after working in their younger years as it gives you a completely different perspective as well as would solve the problem of many people going to university who simply aren't suited. I'm no fan of the Conservatives - indeed I would rather they would cut foreign aid etc before British benefits - but ideologically it is in the right direction. Iain Duncan Smith means well and hopefully his agenda will be carried through.

I had to laugh seeing @Kardan; criticise the 'stupid' Conservatives on education/university though when he voted Labour.

If you believe that people should pay for university themselves, why are you applauding this move when they're giving more money away?

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you believe that people should pay for university themselves, why are you applauding this move when they're giving more money away?

Of course people should pay for university education themselves, why on earth should you be entitled to it for free or subsidised? The majority of graduates will end up earning more than low skilled workers, why should low skilled workers be paying for the free courses of people who could easily take out a loan?

And the government is cutting grants, is it not? It was your Labour Party though remember who brought in tuition fees after promising not to.

[FlyingJesus]

Well that isn't an answer to his question at all

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well that isn't an answer to his question at all

I believe I said this was cutting grants to students so how is that giving away more money?

[FlyingJesus]

The fact remains that money is being given away by the state to students - people are not paying for university themselves (which you said they should), the government is paying and then asking pretty please pay it back when you can in a very small way. I'm not trying to argue that it's right or wrong that this is happening, just that your applause for this change doesn't totally match up with your statement that you think people should pay their own way.

[AgnesIO]

But surely those top 5% are still going to do really well even if the "lower 65%" are attending university with them?

And in regards to the topic at hand, earn or learn? More like earn and learn for some. I wouldn't have been able to get through university without the grant.

Yes you would. You'll still get the money you would have gotten, just now you have to pay it back. You'd still be able to get through University.

Ah, so my maths is all wrong - that means it's even harder for people to pay it all off. That means in order to pay off the £51,600+ loan in 25 years, you need to be earning just over £21,000 OVER the threshold per year - so you need a £42,000 average salary over 25 years to get close to paying it off? That's ridiculous!

Plus, it's not only 'still giving the money away', under this system the government are giving MORE money away. At the moment the max maintenance grant + loan you can get is less than £8,200 - under the new system, the government will be giving more money away initially.

£42,000 is a reasonable salary, but it isn't anything outrageously high. Reach a Head of Year role at a school or something and you'll hit that.

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Lucky me gets a grant this year due to my father retiring So I would be disappointed if I was going in a few years, but this will not touch me personally. I guess it is somewhat irrelevant for most; if you are going to do a job where you don't expect to earn £42,000 a year, it doesn't really matter if it is a grant or a loan, as you won't be paying it back either way...

[-:Undertaker:-]

The fact remains that money is being given away by the state to students - people are not paying for university themselves (which you said they should), the government is paying and then asking pretty please pay it back when you can in a very small way. I'm not trying to argue that it's right or wrong that this is happening, just that your applause for this change doesn't totally match up with your statement that you think people should pay their own way.

So they are now charging more for fees which is what I said I supported. I never said I was against loans, I was just against freebies galore.

That's why I applaud the move...

[Kardan]

Of course people should pay for university education themselves, why on earth should you be entitled to it for free or subsidised? The majority of graduates will end up earning more than low skilled workers, why should low skilled workers be paying for the free courses of people who could easily take out a loan?

And the government is cutting grants, is it not? It was your Labour Party though remember who brought in tuition fees after promising not to.

The government are stopping grants, so they are giving less money to students for "free", instead they are giving that money and a bit extra to students in loans. So the government are giving MORE money out just under loans. That means all these low skilled workers are giving out more money than they were before...

And just because it's a loan isn't going to change that much. The only people that are going to pay back this extra loan are the people that are already able to pay back the whole thing within 25 years - it was said somewhere in the thread that that was only 45% or 55% of people, this percentage is only going to decrease as the amount that is required to pay back increases.

They are only 'charging more' for this money if people end up paying back - already too many student loans are being written off and as I've said increasing the amount people need to pay back won't solve that issue any faster.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes you would. You'll still get the money you would have gotten, just now you have to pay it back. You'd still be able to get through University.



£42,000 is a reasonable salary, but it isn't anything outrageously high. Reach a Head of Year role at a school or something and you'll hit that.

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Lucky me gets a grant this year due to my father retiring So I would be disappointed if I was going in a few years, but this will not touch me personally. I guess it is somewhat irrelevant for most; if you are going to do a job where you don't expect to earn £42,000 a year, it doesn't really matter if it is a grant or a loan, as you won't be paying it back either way...

My point is, I definitely would have been less likely to take the loan because it was a loan and if I made that choice in my first year without knowing why/what I would need the money for - refusing it would have been a mistake.

Also, you need an average of a £42,000 salary. So reaching that salary after a period of time won't be enough - you'll need to earn more than that to balance out the years you were earning less. It'd be interesting to see any stats on a graduate's average salary after X years - I definitely think a majority wouldn't get an average £42,000/year over 25 years.

[Jssy]

this is going to affect me a little. im applying independently as i dont live with parents and my yearly income is £2700 but i guess its loans instead of grants, and I don't expect things for free (bit ironic since im on income support) but i want to go to uni to give myself the best future possible and pay back into the system that has helped me.