EU Referendum Megathread (Brexit)

[The Don]

False and Buckingham Palace have made an official complaint over it.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-bri...-idUKKCN0WB0WC
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...ndum-live.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35762443

edit: and isn't there a megathread for this?? @xxMATTGxx;

[The Don]

Stephen Hawking among 150 signatories of letter arguing that ability to attract top European researchers assures future of British science

Stephen Hawking has backed the campaign for Britain to stay in the EU, saying Brexit would be a “disaster for UK science”.

A letter to the Times signed by more than 150 fellows of the Royal Society, including Hawking, says leaving the EU would hamper research in the UK, because many young scientists are recruited from Europe.

The scientists write: “We now recruit many of our best researchers from continental Europe, including younger ones who have obtained EU grants and have chosen to move with them here.

“Being able to attract and fund the most talented Europeans assures the future of British science and also encourages the best scientists elsewhere to come here.”

They also say increased funding from the EU has benefited the UK and science as a whole. They note the example of Switzerland, which despite paying in to the EU has limited access to funds and struggles to attract young talent because of freedom of movement restrictions.

“If the UK leaves the EU and there is a loss of freedom of movement of scientists between the UK and Europe, it will be a disaster for UK science and universities,” the letter says.

“Investment in science is as important for the long-term prosperity and security of the UK as investment in infrastructure projects, farming or manufacturing; and the free movement of scientists is as important for science as free trade is for market economics.”

The letter was organised by Sir Alan Fersht, a University of Cambridge professor who specialises in protein science.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...tephen-hawking

More leading figures that suggest leaving the EU wouldn't be in our best interest. But i'm sure Dan's about to come and explain how Stephen Hawking is actually an idiot who is wrong/a shill for the EU :rolleyes:

Thread merged by Empired (Forum Moderator) into the EU Referendum Megathread

[-:Undertaker:-]

@The Don; Buckingham Palace may have referred the issue but The Sun isn't backing down on this which makes me think it isn't a typical Sun invention. More to the point, Chris Grayling refuses to say whether the suspected minister who has leaked the Queen's views on the EU should face any action by the cabinet office. From what I have read, the story appears to have something in it: just look at Clegg's non-denial.

Now as for Stephen Hawking, he's very good at what he does but that doesn't make him a genius on matters EU related. Indeed as somebody pointed out, the letter from those academics doesn't really add up that the UK would somehow lose out when you see this.....

World University Rankings say 7 out of top 10 European universities are in UK. So any claim we'd be excluded from Erasmus outside EU is daft

— Patrick O'Flynn (@oflynnsocial) March 10, 2016

In other news, the Icelandic Prime Minister has come out and basically backed Britain leaving.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...warns-iceland/

The scare stories like the one you've posted above are so ridiculous when you look at Norway, Switzerland and Iceland all doing better outside the EU than many countries inside are doing despite being tiny countries compared with Britain. It's so silly and telling that all you have is fear as an argument.

Britain has little or no say over decisions made in a European Union increasingly dominated by German interests, Iceland’s prime minister has said. A leader of non-EU member state, Iceland’s Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson warned larger member states like the UK wield “diminishing power” in institutions still under the sway of the Franco-German alliance.

Iceland, which has been held up as one of the models for the UK in a potential post-Brexit world, has access to the EU's single market and is free to conduct bilateral trade deals around the world.

The lie of 'reform' that supporters of the EU such as Akeam have pushed for years has collapsed infront of their eyes too.

House of Commons Library agrees with Michael Gove and a host of senior lawyers that PM's deal isn't legally binding https://t.co/Lhd1wr4kjA

— Vote Leave (@vote_leave) March 10, 2016

And the until-recently former head of the British Chambers of Commerce is joining the Vote Leave campaign.

http://news.sky.com/story/1657453/ex...oin-vote-leave

[FlyingJesus]

Hawking might not be an expert on the EU (who knows) but he is an expert in his field, which is what he was commenting on. If the only refutation to his comments is "but right now we're fine!" then I think there needs to be a new angle of attack, because that's actually looking in favour of staying lol

[-:Undertaker:-]

Hawking might not be an expert on the EU (who knows) but he is an expert in his field, which is what he was commenting on. If the only refutation to his comments is "but right now we're fine!" then I think there needs to be a new angle of attack, because that's actually looking in favour of staying lol

All of these organisations are in payment of EU funds so obviously are attempting to protect their nest eggs, despite the fact Britain pays more in than it gets out. In addition, don't be fooled into thinking that academics don't have alternative motives for signing such letters: they're political animals with ideology/opinions like the rest of us. But common sense aside, here's a detailed and interesting piece basically taking apart the fear letter what Hawking and others have signed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...academics.html

CERN after all was built in non-EU Switzerland.

In the last year or so, the letters pages of Britain’s quality newspapers have been full of pleas from distinguished vice-chancellors and professors, all mobilised in serried ranks, to plead the case for Britain remaining in the European Union. Their ostensible excuse is the need to preserve research funding from the EU for British universities. Apparently, should Britain leave the EU, she will immediately enter a dark age, deprived of the beacons of scientific and academic research.Their real motive, of course, is simply political bias. If true academic concern were the basis of this organised campaign, the leaders of our academic community would be writing letters reminding politicians of both camps that in their battles over Brexit the concerns of universities should not be overlooked and that, whatever the outcome of the referendum, the funding of vital research should be protected. This would have been, indeed, should have been the natural, politically neutral stand of the nation’s academy.

As Sked also points out, the EU's own legislation states that non-EU states must be treated the same as EU states when it comes to European scientific research.

Indeed, a few minutes' research on the internet could have revealed to these academic heavyweights that on 2 December 2013 the European Council adopted Council Regulation EU No. 1261/2013 (amending Regulation EC723-2009) regarding the European Research Infrastructure Consortium, whereby the participation of countries outside the EU would henceforth be treated on the same basis as EU member states themselves. Indeed, ‘"their contributions to ERICs will be fully reflected in terms of membership and voting rights." This regulation came into force on 26 December 2013. Thus EU and non-EU states participating in European research consortia have exactly the same rights.

These scare mongering arguments are just so easy to debunk.

[FlyingJesus]

Can't be blocked from doing research, can be blocked from recruiting the best minds to perform it just like Switzerland has been

[-:Undertaker:-]

Can't be blocked from doing research, can be blocked from recruiting the best minds to perform it just like Switzerland has been

Evidence for this is....?

[abc]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....Share_Click_FB

[FlyingJesus]

Evidence for this is....?

Switzerland

[-:Undertaker:-]

Norway has said it would invest possibly even more in Britain if we left the EU.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ch-Norway.html

The boss of the world’s biggest sovereign wealth fund yesterday declared that it would invest more in the UK if we vote to leave the EU. Yngve Slyngstad, chief executive of Norway’s £590billion state-owned investment fund, dismissed claims by Number Ten and the In campaign that quitting the Brussels club would pose a significant risk to investment.

‘We will continue to be a significant investor in the UK at about the same level as we are today and probably even increasing our investments there no matter what happens,’ he said. ‘All changes entail some risk but we would not categorize it as a significant risk.’

That's strange. From reading posts in this thread from some you'd be led to believe anyone outside the EU was poor.

Switzerland

Right.

And how exactly has non-EU Switzerland blocked from "recruiting the best minds to perform" science & research?