EU Referendum Megathread (Brexit)

[The Don]

I didn't realise Cameron was resigning this summer?

If Britain leaves the EU after he's publicly backed the remain campaign he'll look incredibly weak.

[abc]

If Britain leaves the EU after he's publicly backed the remain campaign he'll look incredibly weak.

Yes but I do not think it will lead him to resign.

[Bionic...]

We are going to leave. It's just a question of do we do it now and grab the opportunities or later on.

"Britain has given away control of immigration within the EU to the EU, and retains the power only to control non-EU immigration.This has led to huge disparities where Commonwealth citizens with family in Britain struggle to obtain visas whilst EU citizens with little link with the UK can automatically work here"

This should be the priority if you ask me

[-:Undertaker:-]

IF (and when) we get to that stage then we can look at our membership again then. But right now there is no point in assuming things. We should vote now based on the current situation.

No, you assess it on where it has gone and where we know it is going.

In 1975 we were promised it would only be a trading club and look at the monster it has grown into.

You keep mentioning countries such as Switzerland and Norway however your OUT team mention that "none of the country-based models would work for the UK". You fail to point out that "Norway and Switzerland have to abide by many EU rules without any influence over how they are formed and have to pay to access the single market.".

I haven't actually said we would have to join the EEA or EFTA but those are two choices certainly. I actually favour EFTA/Bilateral FTAs rather than the Norway model but all are preferable to EU membership. The argument you make though in relation to EU law is a false argument anyway as it would be like arguing to become a province of China in order to have a "say" in Chinese market rules. Or a state of America. All countries which trade with one another have to abide by each others rules just as American companies have to abide by British safety standards.

Besides all this Britain would be able to negotiate a much better deal than Norway or Switzerland. They've got good deals and they're happy with them.

By being in the EU at least we will have some influence over the EU rules, however the countries you use as examples have zero influence. Is this what you want, the UK to lose influence? If we have a clean break from the EU we would then have to renegotiate all trade deals which could take several years with no guarantee that they would be better for us than what we currently have.

I keep hearing this influence argument yet as shown time and time again what has this supposed influence ever got us? Cameron went to the EU with some pretty basic and small reforms and came back with virtually nothing, showing just how much "influence" we have in the EU. Nilch.

As for exports, what rot. Our companies have to meet American, Chinese, Indian standards when they trade too.

Even after we finally have renegotiated with the countries, there would be tariffs set on our exports while having to still meet the EU standards, which means our exports would no longer be considered competitive. Anyone will agree that this is NOT good for our economy or jobs.

False. The World Trade Organisation (WTO) forbids revenge tariffs.

In any case, even small tariffs won't be erected. Do you think German car manufacturers are going to let Angela Merkel potentially put tens of thousands of German workers out of work by making trade with Britain harder to do? 5 million jobs in Europe depend on UK trade, they won't hurt themselves.

"The attractiveness of the UK as a place to invest and do automotive business is clearly underpinned by the UK's influential membership of the EU," said a KPMG report on the car industry. The financial services sector, which employs about 2.1 million people in the UK, also has concerns about a British exit. "The success of the UK financial services industry is to a large extent built on EU Internal Market legislation. To abandon this for some untried, unknown and unpredictable alternative would carry very significant risks," said global law firm Clifford Chance in a report by think tank TheCityUK.

I could quote thinktanks and economists saying exactly the opposite.

The EU is actually a danger to the City with excessive regulation. The City is successful because of low taxes and low regulation, not the EU lol.

Is the financial centre of Hong Kong in the European Union? Is Singapore? Is New York? Is Dubai? Is Jeddah?

The fact of the matter is, we do not know if we really will be better off outside the EU. Leaving is based on a lot of IF's. If renegotiation's go badly after an exit or we end up being worse off in the long run, all UKIP and people like Dan will do is blame the government for being poor negotiators and try to free themselves of all blame for supporting the OUT campaign. Staying in we know exactly what we are getting.

The EU vote has very little impact on me. The result will not/should not affect me, however I believe staying in will have a greater benefit for the British people and economy. I will be voting to stay in.

Staying has more ifs and dangers.

If we stay we face being trapped in a club where the Eurozone constantly outvotes us.
If we stay we face losing our UN Security Council seat as we'll be under pressure to merge the UK-FR seats into an EU seat.
If we stay we face the threat of terror attacks due to the EU's inability to control its borders.
If we stay we face being sucked into an EU army which they are intent on building.
If we stay we face tighter regulations on the City of London which would mean business moving to Frankfurt.
If we stay we face more bailouts for the Eurozone countries.
If we stay we face an even bigger bill as countries like Bosnia and Turkey join.
If we stay we face having to overhaul our entire legal system changing from common law to European law.
If we stay we miss out on signing Free Trade Deals with growing economies like China, India, Brazil and South Africa.
If we stay we face being dragged into more conflicts in Eastern Europe as seen with the game of Russian roulette over Ukraine.

Leaving would...

Return sovereignty to parliament so British law is made by our elected Commons.
Allow us to sign FTAs with growing economies like India, China and Australia.
Improve relations between Britain and the EU as we wouldn't be standing in the way of their integration.
Give us back control of our own waters so British fishing fleets aren't competing in our own waters with European fleets.
Have us improve and build on relations with the Commonwealth and use it as a forum for global trade negotiations.
Give us the ability to control our borders and immigration which we currently cannot do.
Save us billions every year in membership fees.
Allow us cheaper goods such as food as we wouldn't then be forced into paying more for say French goods.
Help developing countries in Africa by signing FTAs with them as well as bringing our shopping costs down.
Develop closer relations with Switzerland, Iceland and Norway meaning other EU countries which also want out have a strong alternative.

"Britain has given away control of immigration within the EU to the EU, and retains the power only to control non-EU immigration.This has led to huge disparities where Commonwealth citizens with family in Britain struggle to obtain visas whilst EU citizens with little link with the UK can automatically work here"

This should be the priority if you ask me

Indeed the entire immigration system is absurd when it comes to the EU.

A criminal from Slovakia has an automatic right to come to Britain yet a Canadian faces red tape. It is upside down.

[The Don]

No, you assess it on where it has gone and where we know it is going.

In 1975 we were promised it would only be a trading club and look at the monster it has grown into.

What a complete lie. The words "ever closer union" have always been an integral part of the EU and its predecessors, even before the UK joined. To claim anything otherwise is a complete lie.

[-:Undertaker:-]

What a complete lie. The words "ever closer union" have always been an integral part of the EU and its predecessors, even before the UK joined. To claim anything otherwise is a complete lie.

I mean we as in the public.

We were told this...

“There are some in this country who fear that in going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified.”

Prime Minister Edward Heath, television broadcast on Britain’s entry into the Common Market, January 1973

And meanwhile the Foreign Office wasn't telling us the truth...

“the ultimate creation of a European federal state, with a single currency. All the basic instruments of national economic management (fiscal, monetary, incomes and regional policies) would ultimately be handed over to the central federal authorities. The Werner report suggests that this radical transformation of present Communities should be accomplished within a decade”. (PRO/FCO 30/789)

And we're still not being told the truth in public now either by those wanting to keep us in as to where this thing is heading.

Britain doesn't want to be in a federal Europe so why not accept this and leave now in favourable conditions rather than leave ten years down the road.

[Bionic...]

Tbh it's all wrong and we need a new system hence the referendum i guess
y'all idiots better not jeopardise the future of this country

[FlyingJesus]

My logic is that let us leave now rather than in ten years because that way we'll get a head start in signing Free Trade Deals with the likes of the Commonwealth.

I have no firm stance one way or the other but if the EU is really trying to become an exclusive socio-corporate bloc would they not try to put up barriers against a lot of trading deals anyway whether we stay or not? And if that's really the case rather than just a scary conspiracy theory would it not then mean that leaving will set us fully against the EU trading group and give us a great many more countries that we can't trade with at all compared to the few further afield that we'd be more open to?

[wixard]

What about making our own free trade deals with India, China, Australia, Brazil, Canada?

We are going to leave. It's just a question of do we do it now and grab the opportunities or later on.



you're so right. imagine if we ended up like Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, Canada or Australia. Absolute hell!

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@The Don;

An independent Scotland joining the EU would mean it'd be legally obliged to join the Euro.

Nicola Sturgeon gonna get the Scots to vote for that? Dream on.

i'm irish love! republic x

[-:Undertaker:-]

I have no firm stance one way or the other but if the EU is really trying to become an exclusive socio-corporate bloc would they not try to put up barriers against a lot of trading deals anyway whether we stay or not? And if that's really the case rather than just a scary conspiracy theory would it not then mean that leaving will set us fully against the EU trading group and give us a great many more countries that we can't trade with at all compared to the few further afield that we'd be more open to?

I don't get it sorry? I'll try answer what I think you're asking. They're basically building a state of which the Eurozone will be the beginnings of but they won't stop trading with other countries, they can't afford to cut other countries off including Britain. We'd be able to sign a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with the EU itself as a bloc... it currently signs FTAs on our behalf but they're often not very free market (due to French opposition and having to take into account all 28 member states provisions) and they're very slow at completing them. I think the last time I checked tiny Switzerland has signed more FTAs than the EU.

Britain on the other hand is much more pro-free market and along with our legal system and outlook matching that of the Commonwealth we'd be able to sign FTAs with India, Bangladesh, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc quite quickly I would think. When the world's 5th largest economy and largest financial centre in the world is free and able to sign FTAs there will be a queue to sign with us. And our deals will be quite extensive/open across all economic sectors.

Does that answer what you mean?