EU Referendum Megathread (Brexit)

[Jpeace312]

I think we should leave the EU for no particular reason, i just like the idea of britain being britain and not europe if ygm. I think the reason to avoid attack is just daft as **** though.

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[abc]

It is clear you have not read what many of the companies who did not sign are saying (again you are trying to portray something in a way it is not). Many of them have said they wish to remain neutral, not take sides and have stated "the choice of whether to stay in the EU was one for the British people".

Tesco said in a statement: “The referendum on EU membership is a decision for the people of Britain. Whatever that decision is, our focus will continue to be on serving customers.”

A spokeswoman for Sainsbury’s said it was an “apolitical organisation” and the vote on Europe was a “matter for the British people”.

They have clearly said that they have refused to sign as they do not want to deter the customers who are voting for the other side.

They refusal to sign on behalf of Pro-EU is not a sign that they are against EU. They are not supporting either side. The companies who have signed are still a third of the largest companies and you wish to ignore them? Wow.

Also...

Barclays, headed by its chairman, John McFarlane, is not signing the letter because such a move would be against company policy, but the bank said in statement that it was in “the best interest of customers” to stay in the EU.

So while many of the FTSE are supporting the EU and wish for us to stay in, they are refusing to sign for other reasons as is clear from the above quotes.

The problem is, if they refuse to sign then people like Dan ignore the reason as to why they sign. They ignore the fact that these companies actually support us staying in but are not signing as they are afraid of losing customers who want to leave the EU. And the companies who do sign, they start trashing them by coming out with statements such as "Conservative Party donors, have received EU/Government money and have been given roles in government" - yeah because these are the only reasons these companies are signing this letter. Pathetic.

Oh and in your other thread you keep going on about how happy Norway is outside the EU, I honestly think you have no clue what you write about. I will post some articles and comments by their former Foreign Minister who thinks it's worse leaving the EU than staying in.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It is clear you have not read what many of the companies who did not sign are saying (again you are trying to portray something in a way it is not). Many of them have said they wish to remain neutral, not take sides and have stated "the choice of whether to stay in the EU was one for the British people".

They have clearly said that they have refused to sign as they do not want to deter the customers who are voting for the other side.

I never said they were backing any side, just that many were refusing to back Remain which is what the government tried to portray. And failed.

Well done to the likes of Sainsburys and Tesco for keeping out of it. Tesco had it right when it basically said whatever the result life (and business) will go on.

They refusal to sign on behalf of Pro-EU is not a sign that they are against EU. They are not supporting either side. The companies who have signed are still a third of the largest companies and you wish to ignore them? Wow.

Why would I listen to a number of companies who are signing a letter that the government begged/told them to sign when they are Conservative Party donors, lobbyists to the European Union and have roles in government? They're signing in their own interests and not the interests of the country.

Many corporations love the EU simply because it is easier for them to lobby and do deals with one parliament than it is 28. But is that good for the consumer?

So while many of the FTSE are supporting the EU and wish for us to stay in, they are refusing to sign for other reasons as is clear from the above quotes.

Many companies also support us leaving: http://businessforbritain.org/

Sir James Dyson of the hoover company Dyson has been vocal in wanting to leave the EU as has the management of JCB.

The problem is, if they refuse to sign then people like Dan ignore the reason as to why they sign. They ignore the fact that these companies actually support us staying in but are not signing as they are afraid of losing customers who want to leave the EU. And the companies who do sign, they start trashing them by coming out with statements such as "Conservative Party donors, have received EU/Government money and have been given roles in government" - yeah because these are the only reasons these companies are signing this letter. Pathetic.

I'm not trashing them I am stating the facts. Why shouldn't we be aware these companies have received EU/Government money and/or roles?

Oh and in your other thread you keep going on about how happy Norway is outside the EU, I honestly think you have no clue what you write about. I will post some articles and comments by their former Foreign Minister who thinks it's worse leaving the EU than staying in.

You confuse what the politicians of Norway want with what the people of Norway want.

The politicians of Norway would love to join the EU you are one hundred percent correct in that. Of course they would, just look at all the jobs it provides for the failed ones who get booted out of office or the hangers on. Nick Clegg had a job there when he was climbing the greasy pole, the failed Lord Kinnock and his wife have made hundreds of thousands if not millions from the EU gravy-train, the electoral failure Baroness Ashton got a job there that she was completely out of her depth over, Tony Blair and his failed Presidency bid, Jose Manual Barroso, Peter Mandelson... they all love the EU. To them there is nothing better as gives them unchecked power, a big fat pension and salary and best of all: they don't have to worry about a pesky electorate upsetting the apple cart every few years. On top of all that, many like our own political class are out of touch with public opinion and want a federal Europe which the peoples of Europe do not.

Meanwhile the latest poll taken in Norway had only 17.8% of Norweigans wanting to join the EU and 70.5% not wanting to join.

Life must be terrible outside the EU!

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...out-of-EU.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...Claude-Juncker

Czech Republic 'will follow Britain out of EU'

- Fears of contagion as Serbia says Brexit fears mean the 'magic' has gone out of joining the European Union
- Czech Republic may follow Britain out of the European Union says Czech Prime Minister
- Hungarian Prime Minister is now talking of a referendum to curtail EU powers over Hungary's national parliament
- Latest polling in the Netherlands now showing a 50/50 split wanting to leave the EU as demands for a vote grow
- Polls for a April referendum in Denmark show the Danish people rejecting the EU agreement with Ukraine

The Czech Republic may choose to follow Britain out of the European Union, the country’s prime minister said, amid growing fears in Brussels of a “contagion” of members seeking to withdraw from the troubled bloc.

Bohuslav Sobotka said that a “Czexit” may take place. The Czech Republic only joined the EU in 2004 and has been the beneficiary of billions in development funds, but has some of the most hostile public opinion. A Brussels decision to force the country to take in a quota of migrants caused fury.

Three-fifths of Czechs said they were unhappy with EU membership and 62 percent said they would vote against it in a referendum, according to an October 2015 poll by the STEM agency. "If Britain leaves the EU, we can expect debates about leaving the EU in a few years too," said Mr Sobotka, who led eastern European states in opposition to David Cameron’s plans to curb benefits.

In the Dutch poll, more than half (53 per cent) supported an in/out vote with 44 per cent opposed and four per cent unsure. In the survey, conducted by pollster and entrepreneur Maurice de Hond, voters were also asked how they would vote in such an in/out referendum. Only slightly more Dutch voters (44 per cent) wanted to remain in the EU than those who said they would opt to leave the bloc (43 per cent), while 13 per cent said they ‘didn’t know’.

There are fears in Brussels that the multiple crises of Brexit, migration and the euro mean that 2016 will prove to be the high-water mark of the European project, in which it becomes plain that the vision of a fully federalised EU state will never be reached.

And leaders fear that Mr Cameron will trigger a string of copy-cat referendums from ambitious leaders who want to extract special concessions from Brussels, pulling the bloc to pieces. Meanwhile, Aleksander Vucic, the Serbian Prime Minister said that EU membership is no longer the "big dream it was in the past" for Balkan states.. "The EU that all of us are aspiring to, it has lost its magic power," Mr Vucic told a conference at the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) in London.

"Yes we all want to join, but it is no longer the big dream it was in the past." "When you see that in Britain at least 50 percent of the people say they want to leave that has an effect on the public," he said.

I've always said that once Britain leaves others will follow and get out of this House of Cards. Mainly Denmark and the Netherlands.

If Britain leaves and say joins EEA/EFTA with Norway and Switzerland, we'll instantly become the main power in that bloc. As others leave the EU and come across the floor to us, we can shape it how we wish and we can keep the bloc purely as a trading bloc which is all we the public ever wanted.

Interesting times. Let's hope come the referendum we have the positivity and vision to lead the way in creating a new Europe.

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...pe-letter.html

War hero felt pressured by No.10 into signing pro Europe letter as Downing Street is forced to apologise

Field Marshal Lord Bramall, one of Britain's most decorated military heros, says Downing Street presented him with pro Europe letter as 'fait accompli'

David Cameron is facing a backlash from military leaders over a letter saying Britain must stay in the EU on national security grounds after one of Britain's most distinguished war heroes said he felt pressured into signing it.

Field Marshal Lord Bramall, the former head of the army, said he was presented with a "fait accompli" by Downing Street and said it was "not the kind of letter I would have originated myself".

It also emerged that at least two other former Chiefs of Defence Staff, Field Marshal Lord Walker and Lord Richards of Herstmonceux, declined to sign the letter along with General Sir Peter Wall, a former head of the Army.

Downing Street had to make a public apology yesterday after it emerged that General Sir Michael Rose, a former director of special forces, for including his name on the letter after an "administrative error". Sir Michael had been sent a draft of the letter but hadn't replied, and was in fact preparing to reply with a "contrary argument".

The Downing Street organised letter, which was published in The Telegraph, said that Britain must stay in the European Union so it can protect itself from "grave security threats" caused by Isil and Russia. It said: "We are proud to have served our country, and to have played our part in keeping Britain safe. In the forthcoming referendum,therefore, we are particularly concerned with one central question: will Britain be safer inside the EU or outside it? When we look at the world today, there seems to us only one answer.”

Lord Bramall, 92, was at D-Day in 1944 and led the army during the Falklands conflict. He is a Knight of the Order of the Garter as well as a Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath. It is not the kind of letter I would have originated myself, but the Prime Minister's office presented me with a "fait accompli" saying that many other senior officers had agreed to sign it.

"What I find really unfortunate is that a really big decision that will affect the country for generations to come has descended into a messy political squabble." One former senior officer said he resented being told what to say on a highly complex issue like Britain's future membership of the EU a Downing Street special adviser.

"This subject if far too important for us to be dictated to by an over ambitious junior spin doctor," the officer said. Another former senior Army officer said he had declined to sign the letter because he had deep concerns about the potential threat EU policies posed towards British security, particularly following its inept handling of the migration crisis.

The officer said: "I am interested in defence and security, and the letter deals with neither defence nor security so far as I am concerned.
"On the contrary, you only have to look at the EU's handling of the migrant crisis, with an estimated 6,000 jihadis said to have made their way to Europe from Syria disguised as refugees, to see that Brussels has helped to create a direct threat to our well-being."

David Cameron has put national security at the heart of his campaign for Britain to remain in the EU, warning that Britain is safer from terrorists and rogue nuclear states by being a member of the bloc. The signatories to the military letter also include Marshal of the RAF Jock Stirrup, former Chief of Defence Staff and Admiral of the Fleet Lord Michael Boyce, former Chief of Defence Staff. General Sir Mike Jackson, the former Chief of the General Staff, and Lieutenant General Sir Rob Fry, former Deputy Chief of Defence Staff also signed the letter, which was in-part co-ordinated by Downing Street.

Sir John Nott, who served as Defence Secretary under Margaret Thatcher, said that the military leaders who signed the letter have "put themselves on the wrong side of history." He said in a letter to The Telegraph: "The European Union hasconsistently tried to diminish and usurp NATO with its calls for a European army. Our security depends on NATO and not on the European Union.

It came after Downing Street faced controversy earlier this week over a letter signed by more than 200 business leaders calling for Britain to stay in the EU. Only half of the Prime Minister's Business Advisory group signed it, along with fewer FTSE 100 companies than had been expected.

First the business letter and now this.

See the dirty tricks and lies they'll employ? Glad on yet another one they've been publically called out on it.

Thoughts?

[ajs406]

I do think its a shame what has become of the EU, if it had been run and organised better it could of done a lot of good and benefited everyone.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Another update.

Marks and Spencer have issued a statement regarding their inclusion on this letter.

Another Downing Street letter falls apart - Marks & Spencer issue statement that Marc Bolland signed CEO letter in a personal capacity.

— Global Guido (@GloboGuido) February 25, 2016

"M&S believes this is a decision for the people of Britain. Marc Bolland has co-signed the letter in a personal capacity."

— Global Guido (@GloboGuido) February 25, 2016

Only 35 now lmao....

[-:Undertaker:-]

Related defence matter update regarding EU & security implications.

Former Labour/Liberal Foreign Secretary Lord Owen has now backed an EU exit.

Former Labour Foreign Secretary Lord Owen believes that it's the safer choice to #VoteLeave and #TakeControl pic.twitter.com/EMAVHZpnLH

— Vote Leave (@vote_leave) February 25, 2016

EU 'beyond reform' says former foreign secretary Lord Owen https://t.co/zFY7seX3r3

— The Guardian (@guardian) February 24, 2016

Pretty big given one of reasons he founded SDP in 1980s was over the EEC. Now he's wanting out saying it is beyond reform. He's right.

[-:Undertaker:-]

In less than a minute she put it better than any politician could.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Interesting Q for @Kardan; (and would appreciate a response to what I said regarding powers)

Why is it asked that we stop campaigning if we lost the referendum (despite dirty tricks already being deployed such as deny Leave ministers access to their own departments material) yet it was not asked of gay rights campaigners in various countries including America after they lost referendum after referendum?

That's just an interesting point I saw raised. Funny that, isn't it?