Last edited by Landon; 21-03-2017 at 04:54 PM.
The bulk of the electorate rejected the Conservatives. I really don't see how you can argue against this.The bulk of the electorate rejected these parties. It can hardly be good for democracy that no matter how badly a party performs in the polls after being in office, it remains in office? Meet the new boss... same as the old boss.
Under FPTP the disliked Prime Minister is ejected the following day with the removal vans turning up. It's a good system.
You're right, there is never going to be a manifesto I completely agree with, but that's not really a good reason to artificially limit my choice down to a 2 party system.You'll never get a manifesto that you are in complete agreement with. But with two different parties, at least there is a choice whereas prior to this we were faced with two identical 'centre' (which just means centre-left in reality) parties in complete agreement with one another, with many of our laws coming from Brussels anyway. A non-choice.
The next election will be a choice like we have not had for many years. Under full sovereignty with a real left+right.
I don't really see how the EU is the cause of this? It seems like you're just using it as another baseless claim to support your anti EU agenda, unless you have evidence to prove me wrong. I mean, the issue surrounding NI predates the EU and the SNP want EU membership because they think it's in Scotland's best interest. There's no conspiracy here. If there was, why are we not seeing other European countries having similar problems?I won't be blackmailed by the SNP or Sinn Fein into making certain decisions for this country.
Both detest the notion of a strong independent Britain as it in the end cripples their dream of an 'independent' Scotland within Europe or a 32-county Irish republic within Europe. EU membership fuelled these movements and the sooner that cord is severed the better. Ask yourself why these two movements so avidly support EU membership: because it helped in their ultimate goal of dissolving Britain as a nation state.
Yes, look at all these governments collapsing everywhere. It's utter chaos! Governments don't collapse every couple of years under a coalition, stop exaggerating. There's no precedent for this and none for months of wrangling. It took 5 days in 2010 to form government and lasted the full 5 years with no real issues.PR would limit their power in that we'd face months of wrangling and governments collapsing every couple of years.
That's false. Under certain PR voting systems, that is the method. There are many methods of PR, or close to PR, that you vote directly e.g. STV.One way it is more democratic is that you have your own constituency member of Parliament for your own area, accountable to you the electorate. When you vote in FPTP, you vote for the candidate and the local party association nominates that candidate. Under PR you're given a list compiled by the party HQ where the top flunkies are placed at the top and are subsequently elected and who are accountable to large geographical areas, much like MEPs.
How many people can name their MEPs? How high is turnout for EU elections? It turns people off voting.
I didn't argue against this? The Conservatives only scored a plurality of votes.Originally Posted by dbgtz
Even under PR you often get two parties given the tactical element. Only recently in PR systems has this completely broken down like in the Netherlands where forming a government now provides an outcome which nobody voted for.Originally Posted by dbgtz
Happy to prove you wrong. For a long time, as power has gone to Brussels from Westminster parties such as Sinn Fein and the SNP have argued for an 'independent' Scotland within the European Union. They acknowledge that an independent Kingdom of Scotland or 32-county Ireland would be in need of some sort of union given they're unable to practically project power as a medium size nation state or defend themselves, so the EU has served as that replacement for the British state.Originally Posted by dbgtz
You only need to look at the debate in Spain regarding Catalonia - or walk around Barcelona and you'll see numerous Catalan flags alongside the odd EU flag rather than the Spanish flag. The idea of 'independence within Europe' has been used by these separtists to weaken the Spanish state arguing that there's no need for power to reside in Madrid when it can be directly exercised via Brussels. A similar thing can be seen in the Ukraine which in reality will always be a vassal of either Russia or Germany, hence the struggle and appearance of EU flags in western Ukraine which has subsequently torn Ukraine itself apart.
As the European Union became more and more centralised, the need for the British Union or Spanish state has been eclipsed. Ultimately there's only room for one union, and thank god we chose to preserve our own last June.
The Netherlands has had a few General Elections in the past decade or so.Originally Posted by dbgtz
Indeed there are various methods, but most use the list systen. In addition, some PR systems even make use of a 'top up' which I believe they use in Greece - it gives the winning party an extra bonus of seats for coming first because of the fact that PR voting often result in an unworkable splintered vote. Why not just stick to a tried and tested system which has given us stable and solid government for centuries?Originally Posted by dbgtz
Last edited by -:Undertaker:-; 21-03-2017 at 06:41 PM.
Away in Vietnam from 23rd March to 29th March