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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthOnToast View Post
    Were not sympathising them but it seems odd to me that you want to do the same thing as they did which makes you the same
    You seem to really be showing sympathy but alright.

    Anyways, it is not the same thing back at all. Most subject to torture are deemed threats to the nation. Torturing a supposed terrorist isn't the same as a terrorist for instance slaughtering people, detonating bombs, etc.
    Take into account that people deemed "threats to the nation" are most likely terrorists.

    Torturing is trying to extract information out of the murderers, the rapists, what have you for the good of others. Those that are horrible enough to do these things are the people that deserve to be tortured.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landon View Post
    Okay, so I have no morals because I shouldn't want to extract information from terrorists lol. You have morals because you think that terrorists should have no justice and sit useless in a cell. Hell no in my world.
    There should always be a trial in which those who are interrogated should have an opportunity to defend themselves. Although when it comes to getting time-sensitive information, some tactics are best used while needing information.

    I think there should be steps in taking what is required to start torture for interrogation, but I think what is missed is that people misuse the tool of torture because they get caught up emotionally.

    Thoughts? What are your thoughts on the other end of the spectrum that if there is not torture system and people go straight into prison, who would be paying for those individuals to stay in the prison... the government, so in the end unfortunately those who do wrong are justified through the government system for trial... if they get that far.
    @scottish; I've read that article you posted, and there's something that was brought to my attention;
    Mr. Bashmilah has told them of being tortured in Jordan before he was handed over to the C.I.A., which at times kept him shackled alone in freezing-cold cells in Afghanistan, subjected to loud music 24 hours a day. He attempted suicide at least three times, once by saving pills and swallowing them all at once; once by slashing his wrists; and once by trying to hang himself. Another time he cut himself and used his own blood to write “this is unjust” on the wall.
    So by this quote from Mr.Bashmilah's experience, it was not the Americans (CIA) who had performed the torture, but had taken him after that, so do you think that has anything to do with it?
    Thoughts?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intersocial View Post
    How about we stop using the term 'moral' in debates until someone provides me with some actual decent evidence as to what is/isn't morally acceptable and can objectively prove why. I am sick of people using this term to describe any position they agree with and "immoral" for any position they don't agree with; it's just a redundant, useless term.

    Saying X IS MORAL, Y IS IMMORAL is hardly debating, it's the worst kind of debating if we're even going to humour calling it that.
    There is no evidence to provide for what is moral and what is not. Different people hold different opinions as to what is and isn't moral.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad View Post
    I think there should be steps in taking what is required to start torture for interrogation, but I think what is missed is that people misuse the tool of torture because they get caught up emotionally.
    Yes, I agree with this completely. Although I do think that if information needs to be received quickly then an enhanced interrogation and acceptable technique such as waterboarding should be used. That way the person doesn't have the chance of dying.

    Thoughts? What are your thoughts on the other end of the spectrum that if there is not torture system and people go straight into prison, who would be paying for those individuals to stay in the prison
    The taxpayer would still have to pay like usual unfortunately.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landon View Post
    You seem to really be showing sympathy but alright.

    Anyways, it is not the same thing back at all. Most subject to torture are deemed threats to the nation. Torturing a supposed terrorist isn't the same as a terrorist for instance slaughtering people, detonating bombs, etc.
    Take into account that people deemed "threats to the nation" are most likely terrorists.

    Torturing is trying to extract information out of the murderers, the rapists, what have you for the good of others. Those that are horrible enough to do these things are the people that deserve to be tortured.
    no im not showing sympathy im not going 'o you was going to bomb that bus? o well we stopped you doing that lets go have a cup of tea and cake' im saying no matter what someones done i don't think its right to torture them. so your saying someone harms someone so we harm them? so that is doing the same thing?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad View Post
    There should always be a trial in which those who are interrogated should have an opportunity to defend themselves. Although when it comes to getting time-sensitive information, some tactics are best used while needing information.

    I think there should be steps in taking what is required to start torture for interrogation, but I think what is missed is that people misuse the tool of torture because they get caught up emotionally.

    Thoughts? What are your thoughts on the other end of the spectrum that if there is not torture system and people go straight into prison, who would be paying for those individuals to stay in the prison... the government, so in the end unfortunately those who do wrong are justified through the government system for trial... if they get that far.
    @scottish; I've read that article you posted, and there's something that was brought to my attention;

    So by this quote from Mr.Bashmilah's experience, it was not the Americans (CIA) who had performed the torture, but had taken him after that, so do you think that has anything to do with it?
    Thoughts?
    We're we only talking about the CIA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landon View Post
    There is no evidence to provide for what is moral and what is not. Different people hold different opinions as to what is and isn't moral.
    Wasn't that his point?

  6. #36
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    -------Debates Update------
    From now on, I will implementing a new rule to debates. Please avoid using the word "moral" or "Immoral". There are other justifications to our debates in ways that can be more useful than saying something is "moral" or "immoral."

    If you cannot debate further than those words, maybe try going to the "discuss anything" part of the forum.

    Thanks. If you have any further questions, PLEASE PM me as I will be able to answer your questions there.
    Last edited by Brad; 17-04-2017 at 10:34 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthOnToast View Post
    no im not showing sympathy im not going 'o you was going to bomb that bus? o well we stopped you doing that lets go have a cup of tea and cake' im saying no matter what someones done i don't think its right to torture them. so your saying someone harms someone so we harm them? so that is doing the same thing?
    You're not torturing someone because they planned or carried out an attack, you torture them to prevent a future planned attack by obtaining the information they have on it in order to track those involved and foil the plan.

    So if it's a oh you planned on doing that to the bus they'd probably go away to prison to rot but if they were involved in a multiple attack plan then they can be tortured for info on other attacks.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthOnToast View Post
    so your saying someone harms someone so we harm them? so that is doing the same thing?
    Oh okay, if you mean literally physically harm them then yes, I agree. And yes, I believe they really do deserve it . Example: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in the Boston Bombings. Wish they would have either tortured or enhance interrogated to get information out of him quickly so that the process would have went smoothly, we would have got any further details, and we would have seen justice. But no, he is still alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottish View Post
    Wasn't that his point?
    Sorry for the confusion - this is what I was referencing.

    someone provides me with some actual decent evidence as to what is/isn't morally acceptable and can objectively prove why
    There is no way to give evidence as to what is/isn't "morally" acceptable.
    Last edited by Landon; 17-04-2017 at 09:59 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottish View Post
    We're we only talking about the CIA?
    I based by response only off of what was supplied via the link.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landon View Post
    Oh okay, if you mean literally physically harm them then yes, I agree. And yes, I believe they really do deserve it . Example: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in the Boston Bombings. Wish they would have either tortured or enhance interrogated to get information out of him quickly so that the process would have went smoothly, we would have got any further details, and we would have seen justice. But no, he is still alive.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But your still doing the same thing you said you dont your doing the same thing? they killed people so you kill them? so your punishing someone by doing the same thing?

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