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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    The way you're going on you may as well argue for a checklist of things people receiving welfare can spend their money on and what they can't

    Even if you took away welfare from people using drugs there would not be major savings as it's a minority and as others have said it would cost more to drug test them.

    I don't really see how anyone in highly developed countries, whatever politics you support, can justify poverty by removing peoples benefits! The money people on benefits receive isn't even a lot (despite the crap you will read in papers like the Daily Mail)



    Well not really seeing as students also get grants and scholarships as well, and it's unlikely everyone is going to pay back their loans fully
    Yes, not everyone will fully pay it back but the majority will and the interest they pay will cover the losses from those who don't. And even then those who don't pay it back fully will pay something towards it (unlikely you're going to go 40 years of under 17k Salary?). Aren't grants completely removed now and replaced with loans?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landon View Post
    If we used that kind of thinking then everyone would be on welfare. And everyone would be lazy.
    Few points I can make to this.
    One is, surely with the point I presented, there would be no welfare and no tax?
    Second is, most people (in the UK) do actually receive some kind of welfare.
    Third is, universal income is a thing which is being researched into currently and so far there has been nothing to suggest it would cause people to be lazy and a lesser productivity.

    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    Absolutely. Yes there have been cases of clearly disabled but on the whole it has given a real kick up the arse to those permanently on benefits. I hear stories myself of people who are on them and it is becoming more and more tiresome to stay on them to the point where it is easier just getting a job than staying on them. And that's the point of making life difficult for them, a boot up the arse.

    When benefit scroungers **** off the Tories for it you know they're doing the right thing.
    You realise you have to provide evidence of applying to some arbitrary number of jobs every week? It's also not just for the unemployed, but also those who don't work enough hours.

    Not everything revolves around money, often laws must be enforced for a moral point than for financial reasons. It's morally reprehensible to tax decent people who work to pay for the drug habits via benefits or healthcare of junkies.
    Again, bringing morals into an argument it has no place in. But OK I will play your game. It is morally reprehensible to have to tax decent people even more of their hard earned money so they can constantly check that those on benefits aren't spending it on whatever. You see how bogus the moral argument is?

    Sure, but you can't have drug decriminalisation with free state healthcare.

    One or the other, and I think the public would pick keeping the NHS over letting junkies even more off the hook.
    I mean, you can since we have had 2 very widespread and harmful drugs on sale for many years. In addition, outright legalising and allowing the selling of marijuana, for instance, has proven to be very effective in generating tax and isn't a health hazard.

  3. #23
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    fritec is online now Assistant Events Manager / HabboxLive Guest DJ (Lemons)
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    Maybe we should do lie detectors on people who receive benefits and ask if they are spending their money on takeaways instead of home cooking? x Sick of my taxes going towards someones weekly 30 Chinese food!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz View Post
    Few points I can make to this.
    One is, surely with the point I presented, there would be no welfare and no tax?
    Second is, most people (in the UK) do actually receive some kind of welfare.
    Third is, universal income is a thing which is being researched into currently and so far there has been nothing to suggest it would cause people to be lazy and a lesser productivity.
    1 - Which one? Apologies, can't remember what you are referring to.
    2 - Are a lot of people low income in general? Or how does it work there?
    3 - I guess the thing for me is just making sure that people aren't living on a career of welfare. I have a some family members that live off of welfare and make no attempt to better themselves and spend it on smokes which really drives me up the wall.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    Maybe we should do lie detectors on people who receive benefits and ask if they are spending their money on takeaways instead of home cooking? x Sick of my taxes going towards someones weekly 30 Chinese food!
    make them go on Jeremy Kyle for their benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Landon View Post
    1 - Which one? Apologies, can't remember what you are referring to.
    2 - Are a lot of people low income in general? Or how does it work there?
    3 - I guess the thing for me is just making sure that people aren't living on a career of welfare. I have a some family members that live off of welfare and make no attempt to better themselves and spend it on smokes which really drives me up the wall.
    1, doesn't matter
    2, various means of welfare. Aside from the obvious unemployment and disability benefits, there's standard child benefits available to everyone with children (soon to have limits put in place); free childcare at ages 2-4 if you meet certain criteria; various tax credits if you earn (or in some cases, your and/or your partner) earn below a certain threshold; "free" healthcare etc. It is also arguable if the UK state pension is welfare. Most people will access at least one of these at some point.
    3, I can't speak for the USA, but it's really not that easy to do in the UK as much as the tabloids here like to make out, especially when the new child benefit restrictions come into place. The only problem I have with benefits is that morbid obesity is apparently a legitimate disability. And if people really don't seek to better themselves, then that's a whole issue in itself.

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