Manchester arena 'explosion'.

[dbgtz]

This is the same western self-blame line I used to buy into as well. It simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If you look at the latest thread I posted on the Philippines, the last time I checked the Philippines was not conducting airstrikes over Syria.

You're still not getting it. These people are engaged in what they view as an end of times Holy War with us. They're not doing it because they're being bombed in response to their vile actions, or because they were bullied in school, or because they feel alienated in western society - they're doing it because they believe that this is - to quote Murray below - everything. You cannot reason with or win them over. They're fanatical. And they must be destroyed.

I can only imagine the situation being different, but alas I have not researched. All I can say is, I trust what they say to be the reason more than what you claim to be the reason. In fact, you've literally just made a bunch of assumptions without any evidence.

They're bombing us so let's not bomb them? How's that working out? I don't see many real bombings going on - if any. That's why I want to start. They'd look amateur compared to the power that we can bring.

Uh, the west have been in the middle east long before Islamic terrorism in the west. That last sentence is quite funny though, "the power that we can bring". You mean taking 10 years to find one man who was in his house? Or being involved in a region for about 13 years, making no difference whatsoever?

[lemons]

Quote me, where did I ever say we need to bomb ISIS in Syria? I believe we need to bomb areas of the middle east as a whole.

and that includes syria where a lot of isis is based

you didnt answer my question

[FlyingJesus]

They're not doing it because they're being bombed

Chillingly uncaring quotes from the family suggest that's exactly why Salman Abedi did what he did. Religion is the excuse, not the reason

[-:Undertaker:-]

Chillingly uncaring quotes from the family suggest that's exactly why Salman Abedi did what he did. Religion is the excuse, not the reason

Enlighten us as to why he and countless other muslims then who are followers of a certain strain of Islam have decided to commit such terrible acts? Tell me the reason he and others do this. They can't possibly all have mean and uncaring families, can they?

I can only imagine the situation being different, but alas I have not researched. All I can say is, I trust what they say to be the reason more than what you claim to be the reason. In fact, you've literally just made a bunch of assumptions without any evidence.

Exactly, you haven't researched it but here you are telling us it's because of western airstrikes this is happening.

Learn the region. I suggest a read on the formation of Saudi Arabia and its history, with a book on the Iranian Revolution of 1979 if you want to begin to understand where this comes from and the forces we [non-muslims and muslims] are dealing with here.

Recommend Robert Lacey's superb book 'Inside the Kingdom' for background on Saudi Arabia and Con Coughlin's book 'Khomeini's Ghost' on the events in Iran from the 1950s to the overthrow of the Shah my the mullahs in 79. Key to it all.

[Landon]

how is bombing isis in the middle east etc going to prevent attacks in western countries where the attackers were born and bred

It will destroy the source of ISIS/radicalization. Without a powerhouse it'll come crashing down.

Uh, the west have been in the middle east long before Islamic terrorism in the west. That last sentence is quite funny though, "the power that we can bring". You mean taking 10 years to find one man who was in his house? Or being involved in a region for about 13 years, making no difference whatsoever?

Are you saying that we shouldn't have found and killed him and instead forgave his actions for bringing down the twin towers, sitting around a plethora of candles, crying, and hugging?

That end of that monster's life was warranted. And I'm glad we found him and "dealt with him accordingly"

[lemons]

It will destroy the source of ISIS/radicalization. Without a powerhouse it'll come crashing down.

but will it? these attackers are among us already - they don't need to go to and from the middle east for a weekly briefing

i'm not 100% against bombing but only if it's credible and worth it

not when it has the potential to kill innocent civilians

More than 100 Iraqi civilians were killed by US air strike and blast in Mosul in March, US military confirms https://t.co/mXhigHRjU8

— BBC Breaking News (@BBCBreaking) May 25, 2017

[dbgtz]

Exactly, you haven't researched it but here you are telling us it's because of western airstrikes this is happening.

Learn the region. I suggest a read on the formation of Saudi Arabia and its history, with a book on the Iranian Revolution of 1979 if you want to begin to understand where this comes from and the forces we [non-muslims and muslims] are dealing with here.

Recommend Robert Lacey's superb book 'Inside the Kingdom' for background on Saudi Arabia and Con Coughlin's book 'Khomeini's Ghost' on the events in Iran from the 1950s to the overthrow of the Shah my the mullahs in 79. Key to it all.

Twisting my words there slightly. I don't know when it comes to the Philippines because I just don't know enough about them.
I'm not even suggesting that instability in the area has anything to do with western military intervention, I'm simply suggesting attacks on western soil is down to western military intervention which is a legitimate thought when they themselves say so.

Are you saying that we shouldn't have found and killed him and instead forgave his actions for bringing down the twin towers, sitting around a plethora of candles, crying, and hugging?

That end of that monster's life was warranted. And I'm glad we found him and "dealt with him accordingly"

Nice straw man there, completely ignoring the main point. All I was implying is that "we" are not as strong and mighty as you think "we" are.

[FlyingJesus]

Enlighten us as to why he and countless other muslims then who are followers of a certain strain of Islam have decided to commit such terrible acts? Tell me the reason he and others do this. They can't possibly all have mean and uncaring families, can they?

When did I ever claim such a thing? People can be violent and hateful without experiencing traumas. It's not a case of sensible and peaceful people deciding to join a death cult and THEN becoming like that, you clearly have to already be an angry and aggressive person to be a part of it. You're looking at things the wrong way around

[Landon]

i'm not 100% against bombing but only if it's credible and worth it

Please define "credible" and "worth it" in this case.

[lemons]

Please define "credible" and "worth it" in this case.

actually prevents terrorism not only there but in western countries...... and isn't killing countless innocent people

what's your opinion on the tweet that you ignored in my original post?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-40051640