Parents doing jail time for kids bullying?

[Triz]

Do you think we should be able to threaten parents with jail time for their kids bullying?

In 2017, a small city called North Tonawanda located in New York passed a new law stating "If a kid bullies others, then their parents will be the ones to face the punishment - with a hefty $250 fine and a 15 day jail sentence"

They could also face punishment if their child violates the city curfew or breaks any other city law twice within a 90 day period.

Surprisingly, it was a parent who campaigned for this law to be put in place. The small city states they never hope to use this law, however it is there for extreme circumstances.

Do you think if a whole country adopted this law then it would help combat bullying both inside and outside of schools and perhaps even help combat and cut down on anti-social behavior among children/teens?

Give me your opinions below

(Source)

THIS DEBATE ENDS ON THE 16TH OCTOBER


For more information on the debate guidelines and how to win prizes see the guidelines thread here

[Triz]

This debate is now open!

[scatterbox]

I don't see how this would work at all; you'd just get parents refusing to pay fines or not being in a financial position to do so.
What would happen then, lock the parents up who don't pay fines?

[Triz]

I don't see how this would work at all; you'd just get parents refusing to pay fines or not being in a financial position to do so.
What would happen then, lock the parents up who don't pay fines?

I think it works based on your income, so the fines would differ depending upon how much you earn as opposed to a fixed penalty for all.

[scatterbox]

I think it works based on your income, so the fines would differ depending upon how much you earn as opposed to a fixed penalty for all.

When would it end though, if they can't pay send the parents to prison?
This system makes no sense.

Instead of fining them, offer the parents support if they're having trouble dealing with their children's behaviour!

[Triz]

When would it end though, if they can't pay send the parents to prison?
This system makes no sense.

Instead of fining them, offer the parents support if they're having trouble dealing with their children's behaviour!

I'm not sure on the complete system they're using, but I think if this was going to work then firstly as it says in the article, this is only to be used in extreme circumstances, therefore it's mostly to be used as a scare tool to ensure parents are disciplining their children, as if they don't then in extreme cases, they could be the ones that face the penalty. I think it'll work if it's only used in extreme circumstances. I.E for the parents who clearly let their children get away with blue murder and face no punishment at all, those type of parents will be the ones who get hit with this law. Not the ones who made a stupid mistake.

But yes I agree that if this was to work then help would be the first point of call with the fine/jail time in the background as a reminder to the parent about how serious this is and to ensure the parents are giving it their 100%

Children who bully consistently at school and commit crimes or anit-social behaviour tend to have parents who don't punish them, it's a common saying when a child acts up to blame the parents, because it tends to always be the case, and the parents know they can get away with not doing anything because there are no repercussions on them to sort out their childs behaviour apart from in more serious cases where they get taken out of their care and place into foster for example.

Maybe I just think that it'll work in theory, but probably not in practice.. I just know if there was such a law as this in my country and I had a child and they were bullying, I would do everything in my power to put an end to it, not just for my sake, but for my childs future as well, and I like to think that I would equally do the same even if this law didn't exist, but sadly there are people out there that simply wouldn't try as hard to prevent the bullying if it didn't effect them and/or their own child wasn't being hurt.

It's the same for speeding fines, you don't want a fine, don't speed, it never stops, you'll just keep racking up bills until you stop speeding, or until you lose your license. The whole child welfare system is designed to protect the child at all times... So if a couple has a baby together and then splits up, the government ensures the baby has accommodation and ensures the custody of the child goes to an able parent, and that the other parent pays maintenance to help raise the baby, along with a schedule for both parents to see and spend time with their child. I would argue that ensuring the child has a healthy upbringing, free from bullying and crime and making sure (s)he doesn't fall in with the wrong crowd, would be in the best interest and protecting the child, and would probably help combat bullying overall as well as crime rates among teenagers.

So perhaps if the threat of a fine/prison time isn't working, then help is offered, and if it's still not working then custody of the child would be removed from the parents. This is no different to what happens now, apart from the fact that a fine/prison time is globally threatened to hopefully highlight how serious it is and let the parents know that they could pay for their childs bad behaviour?

Again, I'm not really sure it would work in practice thinking about it... That said, I haven't found any articles about people getting fined or jail time, so I think it's more of a scare tactic to push parents to do more if their kid is bullying.

Edit: damn I wrote more than I thought lol.

Edit 2:

Apparently the state offers a warning to the parents first before any fine is imposed. (although this is a different state, it seems a few states in US have adopted this method.

Where such legislation has passed, though, the penalties are rarely imposed. Local officials compared the ordinances to truancy laws, acting as deterrents rather than punishments. Still, some critics say the bills could backfire and unfairly punish parents for their children’s actions.


Dr. Amanda Nickerson, who directs the Alberti Center for Bullying Abuse Prevention at the University at Buffalo, said she was skeptical that being fined would suddenly motivate parents to become involved in changing their child’s behavior. She said the key to engaging parents was to set up meetings between them and teachers to discuss how to encourage good behavior, before seeking any kind of penalty.


When the authorities fine parents over bullying, “there’s a lot of steps in between punishment and behavior change in the child that are missing,” Dr. Nickerson said. Without those intermediate steps, “the parent is probably going to be angered and think that the schools or the courts are being ridiculous or overblown.”

Show Hide

[scatterbox]

Offering the parents support would make much more sense hands down. If it's parents who can't be bothered; if you look into it their parents were probably the same & they've never known what they're actually supposed to do as parents.

The custody of the child would be removed is interesting, I know with the social service's i've dealt with professionally this is the last thing they like to do now; just because of the high cost in doing this; which is quite disgusting then it all comes down to money.

[Triz]

Everything these days comes down to money. We sadly live in a world where money is the ultimate goal, everything revolves around people wanting and needing things and people set out to provide things to meet the wants and needs of others, and money is just how we keep track; how we manage thousands of exchanges without the tedious complication of trying to do it all by barter. What a time to be alive.

Yeah I suppose in any situation, custody of the child is always a last resort, such as, I assume; the fine/prison time for this law would be.
Clearly it's working in certain states in america as I haven't managed to find an article stating that the law has been abolished, as I presume if the law just straight up didn't work then it would have been removed by now... Not unless like most things the government do, it's there to make extra buck, such as keeping cigarettes legal because they can tax the heck out of them, despite them being a high cause of many deaths around the country, along with costing a shed tonne in health bills for people.

[Ozad]

This blows my mind, they do the same with kids missing school.

If your child is truant from school, the parent gets a fine and could face being taken to court. In my eyes this is absolutely ridiculous, I am sure some parents try so hard to get their children to go to school, as well as the fact that there could be many reasons behind that child not going to school... like being the victim of a bully or mental health. There also comes a point where some parents simply have no control over their children or what they do, I can imagine it is especially hard for single parents.

If a child is bullying someone, they should be punished... not their parents. It is hardly a lesson for their child if their parents are the ones being punished, and if the parents are rich, they will likely not care as much anyway and just pay the fine.

SOME children who are considered bullies are likely just crying out for help, or have experienced some sort of bullying or neglect themselves in their life. I believe that some kind of support should be provided to the student before taking any serious action. If it does continue, throw the kid in prison and teach them a bloody lesson.

[Triz]

This blows my mind, they do the same with kids missing school.

If your child is truant from school, the parent gets a fine and could face being taken to court. In my eyes this is absolutely ridiculous, I am sure some parents try so hard to get their children to go to school, as well as the fact that there could be many reasons behind that child not going to school... like being the victim of a bully or mental health. There also comes a point where some parents simply have no control over their children or what they do, I can imagine it is especially hard for single parents.

If a child is bullying someone, they should be punished... not their parents. It is hardly a lesson for their child if their parents are the ones being punished, and if the parents are rich, they will likely not care as much anyway and just pay the fine.

SOME children who are considered bullies are likely just crying out for help, or have experienced some sort of bullying or neglect themselves in their life. I believe that some kind of support should be provided to the student before taking any serious action. If it does continue, throw the kid in prison and teach them a bloody lesson.

I think perhaps it's wrong if they are fining the parents with a blindfold on, but like the law above; perhaps if it was more of a last resort then maybe it could work? As in - In the first case, the parents get informed, then the 2nd case perhaps another warning, but more serious, then 3rd case would be to offer support and check that everything at home is okay, then progress from there...

Actually even when I'm just writing that, I've realised it won't work... If they've exhausted all options as stated above, then slapping a fine on the parents is going to literally do nothing lol. The last case would be removing the child from the parents care, that's really the only thing that'll work, but that'll be a case by case basis, and is a little extreme...

I think the threat of a fine would work for most parents, however there will always be people out there who won't care, and it'll soon come out that its never enforced, thus be completely useless...

So as I've said above.. I think the theory of it all sounds good in a half ideal world, but we don't live in one.