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  1. #11
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    Pretty big step taken yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz View Post
    this is obviously a hypothetical, but most people are expecting the us to force their food standards on us and the big one here is chlorinated chicken
    there are a few reasons why eu countries do not do this, partly down to animal welfare and partly down to the fact that, at least to the eus belief, chlorinating the chicken is just covering up poor quality and leads to greater cases of illness akin to poorly patching a pot hole vs properly retarmarcing the road
    Most people are expecting... you mean most Remainers keep asserting?

    The chicken argument is such a silly argument. Firstly, your water is chlorinated. Secondly, consumer choice. I ate chicken in America and I am still here breathing, tasted the same as any other chicken I have had whether it was British, Indian or Spanish. It's basically washing chicken.

    That's not to say I am all for it being included in a trade deal. What we accept is entirely down to us post-Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    theres also the excessive use of growth hormones and other chemicals banned in the EU
    in the eu as well, certain foods and drinks have a "protected status" in how it can be named, e.g. you cant make any old cheese in greece and call it "Dorset Blue cheese". the country of origin is also very much labelled on eu products, something which i believe the us has said we would have to drop
    None of this is unique to the EU. Nor can America make us change our food standards if we do not want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    those are obviously just some examples from one country, but a country most people seem to be pushing us to have a deal with
    and the fact is, whether you agree with the rules or not, it would be ridiculous for them to just trust we dont allow things which dont follow these rules in to the eu.
    Up to the EU what they import just as it is our choice post-Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    also the european union isnt a country
    In terms of trade, the EU acts as a sovereign state. Individual nations cannot sign FTAs.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    i also dont know why you keep pointing to french agriculture when brexit is more likely to do great harm to our own agriculture sector than the french
    How so? The existing subsidy regime could/will initially be maintained by Whitehall.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    nothing you said actually explains how "none of this relates to the gfa", you just said a statement as if it were fact. id argue that "Removal of security installations" is very much relevant
    your entire suggestion is to shove the burden onto ireland who very much did not vote to have customs checks with rEU
    Customs posts are not security installations. That is obviously referring to military checkpoints in the GFA.

    As for the Republic, if they wish to remain in the EU Single Market and Customs Union then that has its obligations that they will have to follow. Alternatively they could make the calculation that it is better to be outside and have closer relations with its biggest trading partner (Britain). But that is their call. It isn't our fault, it is the choice Ireland has made as another country. Remember, Britain has said it won't install border checks - if anyone installs them, it will likely be the Irish having to install them as a result of EU trade protectionism. Let them sort out that dilemma between themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    the problem with your logic here is the disconnect between the eu and ireland. ireland is part of the eu and allowing any "disallowed" goods through is going to hurt them just as much (if not more) than any other eu country.
    You're making big assumptions here that EU trade policy is completely beneficial and not guided by special interests such as French farmers/unions wanting to protect their expensive produce from outside competition. Cheaper goods and food is a good thing for society/consumers.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    your logic is somewhat flawed in suggesting the EU is undermining it - we started this process so the burden is on us to come up with a workable agreement. if the reverse happened and the EU kicked the UK out (not sure if that would even happen), then the burden would be on them.
    No the burden is not on us once we've left to help EU trade policy.

    The EU is responsible for policing its SM/CU - once we're out we have no more responsibility to it than Russia or Belarus do.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    the eu did also come to us with a solution btw, but we rejected it without suggesting an actual alternative workable for all parties
    By annexing part of our country and forcing us into "regulatory alignment" aka following their laws with no say?

    Imagine suggesting to America that, as part of an FTA, we want them to have Texas be in our Single Market/Customs Union, with the rest of America having to "regulatory align" aka copy our regulations and laws, without any say. No country has *ever* voluntarily accepted such an arrangement.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    i also think its wrong to think that we wouldnt put a border up on the ni/eire border at some point. part of the narrative of brexit is to take control of our borders (which we had complete control over except the ni), so to leave a massive hole unchecked would completely go against this idea of taking back control
    i suspect the only reason people in positions of power are saying there will be no hard border is that they literally do not have the time or money to have it up by brexit day, or they are expecting to kick the can down the road a bit more
    I personally have no issue with a border, after all it already exists in terms of currency, law, infrastructure, government etc.

    In the event of No Deal, the massive spat that's coming between the Republic and the EU is going to be something to behold.
    Last edited by -:Undertaker:-; 18-08-2019 at 09:07 AM.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    Most people are expecting... you mean most Remainers keep asserting?

    The chicken argument is such a silly argument. Firstly, your water is chlorinated. Secondly, consumer choice. I ate chicken in America and I am still here breathing, tasted the same as any other chicken I have had whether it was British, Indian or Spanish. It's basically washing chicken.

    That's not to say I am all for it being included in a trade deal. What we accept is entirely down to us post-Brexit.



    None of this is unique to the EU. Nor can America make us change our food standards if we do not want to.



    Up to the EU what they import just as it is our choice post-Brexit.
    it doesnt matter what you think is safe/fine etc. or not, the fact is in this hypothetical (which i did assert was hypothetical), these do not meet eu standards. nothing you replied actually addressed that

    just to be clear though, our current government are pushing for a US trade deal so dont say this is anything to do with "remainers"

    In terms of trade, the EU acts as a sovereign state. Individual nations cannot sign FTAs.
    that doesnt make it a state

    How so? The existing subsidy regime could/will initially be maintained by Whitehall.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9058621.html
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/15/no-de...bust-10577054/
    https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/eu-refere...no-deal-brexit

    etc

    Customs posts are not security installations. That is obviously referring to military checkpoints in the GFA.

    As for the Republic, if they wish to remain in the EU Single Market and Customs Union then that has its obligations that they will have to follow. Alternatively they could make the calculation that it is better to be outside and have closer relations with its biggest trading partner (Britain). But that is their call. It isn't our fault, it is the choice Ireland has made as another country. Remember, Britain has said it won't install border checks - if anyone installs them, it will likely be the Irish having to install them as a result of EU trade protectionism. Let them sort out that dilemma between themselves.
    do you not see the irony in what you just said

    You're making big assumptions here that EU trade policy is completely beneficial and not guided by special interests such as French farmers/unions wanting to protect their expensive produce from outside competition. Cheaper goods and food is a good thing for society/consumers.
    not if it doesnt adhere to reasonable standards it doesnt
    and as far as ireland are concerned, eu standards are reasonable standards whether you agree with them or not

    No the burden is not on us once we've left to help EU trade policy.

    The EU is responsible for policing its SM/CU - once we're out we have no more responsibility to it than Russia or Belarus do.
    what you replied to has nothing to do with eu trade policy

    By annexing part of our country and forcing us into "regulatory alignment" aka following their laws with no say?

    Imagine suggesting to America that, as part of an FTA, we want them to have Texas be in our Single Market/Customs Union, with the rest of America having to "regulatory align" aka copy our regulations and laws, without any say. No country has *ever* voluntarily accepted such an arrangement.
    the idea of "norway plus" or whatever was floated for years prior to the referendum which would have meant exactly what you just said. pretty sure its something you advocated as well.

    I personally have no issue with a border, after all it already exists in terms of currency, law, infrastructure, government etc.

    In the event of No Deal, the massive spat that's coming between the Republic and the EU is going to be something to behold.
    its irrelevant what you think in what you just replied to

    "ultimately ireland will leave the eu too"
    ok

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