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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    Labour's manifesto says to Leave, yet its MPs do the opposite.

    And the Tories lost their majority when Philip Lee MP defected just before the 21 were expelled.

    Here's the problem below in a simple graph -

    plenty of those mps voted for brexit though
    just wasnt a brexit you liked which is kind of the whole issue

    you should listen to the lbc interview where philip lee explains why he quit and realise he would have been part of those sacked anyway

    British law takes precedence over Scottish, English, Welsh and Northern Irish law. But my point is that given the constitution is based on Common law and not Scots law, it is likely that the Supreme Court will take the same view as the English courts did. We don't govern via the courts.
    ianal so we shall have to see

    That's the problem - it isn't his job to 'argue' for anything other than act as a neutral Speaker for all sides of the House of Commons.
    you just said the problem was that he was remain biased
    i dont understand your issue, for years youve said brussels has all the power and it needs to be back on parliament or whatever which this guy is arguing for because the government is trying to bypass parliament to avoid scrutiny
    this isnt an ideological issue where hes trying to force remain to happen

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz View Post
    plenty of those mps voted for brexit though
    just wasnt a brexit you liked which is kind of the whole issue
    In what world does regulatory alignment (following EU laws) over Northern Ireland qualify as leaving the European Union?

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    you should listen to the lbc interview where philip lee explains why he quit and realise he would have been part of those sacked anyway
    I'm delighted they have been deselected. Many of those who were deselected were parachuted in during the Cameron years against the wishes of their local constituency parties to make the Conservative and Unionist Party more liberal, but there was a big problem evident to everyone other than Cameron and Osborne: the party is called the Conservative Party, so its voters want Conservatives to vote for, not confused Liberal Democrats.

    Philip Lee MP stood on a manifesto to deliver Brexit. He lied and now he faces the consequence of losing his career.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    you just said the problem was that he was remain biased
    Yes this particular Speaker is making and breaking whatever rules he sees fit to achieve his own political goal concern Remain. If the situation were hypothetically reversed, this would be just as disgraceful. But that's a hypothetical - we have a Speaker acting as the font of constitutional coventions to aid a political cause that has majority support in the House of Commons, but not in the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    i dont understand your issue, for years youve said brussels has all the power and it needs to be back on parliament or whatever which this guy is arguing for because the government is trying to bypass parliament to avoid scrutiny
    this isnt an ideological issue where hes trying to force remain to happen
    I argue for power to be returned to Westminster correct. I did not argue for the constitution to be ripped up in the process whereby Parliament ignores public votes that it itself asked and the Speaker then rips up constitutional conventions to aid one side of a political issue. The constitution is being turned on its head as a House of Commons completely out of touch with public opinion tries to defy laws and public opinion to hold on.

    As Professor Vernon Bogdanor (voted Remain) explains...

    Last edited by -:Undertaker:-; 14-09-2019 at 10:45 PM.
    Thats the guy, Adriana. My Uncle Tony. The man Im going to hell for.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    In what world does regulatory alignment (following EU laws) over Northern Ireland qualify as leaving the European Union?
    the issue with that argument is that it was only a temporary arrangement to set up new procedures in NI which shouldnt have been an issue since it was apparently easily solvable
    also it was always argued that following a norway model is a kind of brexit, which wouldnt be too dissimilar to that set up

    I'm delighted they have been deselected. Many of those who were deselected were parachuted in during the Cameron years against the wishes of their local constituency parties to make the Conservative and Unionist Party more liberal, but there was a big problem evident to everyone other than Cameron and Osborne: the party is called the Conservative Party, so its voters want Conservatives to vote for, not confused Liberal Democrats.

    Philip Lee MP stood on a manifesto to deliver Brexit. He lied and now he faces the consequence of losing his career.
    ken clarke, that famous conservative cameron parachuted in

    Guto Bebb - 2010
    Richard Benyon - 2005
    Steve Brine - 2010
    Alistair Burt - 2001
    Greg Clark - 2005
    Kenneth Clarke - 1970
    David Gauke - 2005
    Justine Greening - 2005
    Dominic Grieve - 1997
    Sam Gyimah - 2010
    Philip Hammond - 1997
    Stephen Hammond - 2005
    Richard Harrington - 2010
    Margot James - 2010
    Oliver Letwin - 1997
    Anne Milton - 2005
    Caroline Nokes - 2010
    Antoinette Sandbach - 2015
    Nicholas Soames - 1997
    Rory Stewart - 2010
    Edward Vaizey - 2005

    the "many" you are talking about amounts to... 8


    Yes this particular Speaker is making and breaking whatever rules he sees fit to achieve his own political goal concern Remain. If the situation were hypothetically reversed, this would be just as disgraceful. But that's a hypothetical - we have a Speaker acting as the font of constitutional coventions to aid a political cause that has majority support in the House of Commons, but not in the country.
    his argument is not a remain/leave one, but that it should be on parliament to be the ones to decide and they should be allowed to scrutinise

    I argue for power to be returned to Westminster correct. I did not argue for the constitution to be ripped up in the process whereby Parliament ignores public votes that it itself asked and the Speaker then rips up constitutional conventions to aid one side of a political issue. The constitution is being turned on its head as a House of Commons completely out of touch with public opinion tries to defy laws and public opinion to hold on.

    As Professor Vernon Bogdanor (voted Remain) explains...

    for not wanting an election right in the middle of such a critical time?
    for not wanting an election when johnson thinks hes going to sweep up? because thats all it is fundamentally because theres a strong chance of a) him asking for an extension or b) it going **** up enough that he loses a significant enough chunk of support. this call for an election is just so he can capitalise on what he believes is his current support

    on that video, i will comment further if you send me a full link because at no point does he seem to advocate brexit yet its obviously been edited to some degree by a pro-brexit account. i looked myself but no luck

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