HabboxWiki needs you!
Are you a Habbo buff? Or maybe a rare trader with a bunch of LTDs? Get involved with HabboxWiki to share your knowledge!
Join our team!
Whether you're raving for rares, excited for events or happy helping, there's something for you! Click here to apply
Need a helping hand?
Check out our guides for all things to help you make friends, make rooms, and make money!


View Poll Results: Who are/who would you be voting for?

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • Conservative and Unionist Party

    2 15.38%
  • Labour Party

    8 61.54%
  • Liberal Democrats

    1 7.69%
  • Brexit Party

    1 7.69%
  • Other (SNP, DUP, Plaid, Ukip, Green etc)

    1 7.69%
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 31 to 35 of 35
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    12,313
    Tokens
    33,472
    Habbo
    dbgtz

    Latest Awards:

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    The government will go for a Canada-style FTA. He has the numbers, and Downing Street now has Dominic Cummings as well as half the Cabinet as ardent Leavers. There's no more staunch Remainers like Sir David Lidlingtons and Gavin Barwells in Number 10. One thing people are overlooking is how the Conservative and Unionist Party has now become completely eurosceptic - I cannot name a single incumbent Tory MP who even advocates the EEA/EFTA now. That's a massive sea change.

    Soubry, Grieve, Letwin, Clarke, Sandbach, Wollaston, Allen, Boles and countless others are history. Farage has won.
    purely speculation that's what they will go for
    remember boris is the man who has literally been fired from jobs for lying - also the cabinet is due a reshuffle so you have no idea who is going to be there

    The opt outs that exist for Britain, Denmark(?) and Sweden(?) on the Euro exist because they are existing members and were able to bargain opt outs before signing the newer treaties. A member state applying to join the European Union has no legal choice: other than not joining the EU.

    Britain is leaving the EU's Customs Union, meaning an independent Scotland would be in a different customs territory. All of the arguments the SNP made about leaving the EU, can be applied to Scotland leaving the UK - but tenfold. They won't have a leg to stand on post- Brexit and they know it.
    The UK and Denmark have an opt out, but there are 7 other countries who do not and have yet to join the Euro. Sweden does not have an opt out as you just stated, but has yet to join.

    I'd like to know examples of arguments the SNP have made that would apply to Scotland leaving the UK and also I'd like to know why none of the supposed advantages of Scotland leaving the EU would apply too.

    Arguably the sooner independence happens once we've formally left, the easier it would be from a bureaucratic point of view since we'd have lost most/all the EU trade deals so arguably it would be the least impactful time compared to 2014 where they would have their own transition period where they could have lost all the EU trade deals (obviously no idea how it would have been handled, but worst outcome would be that they were out of the UK and the EU for a period). It has the potential to be a much easier sell now, somewhat depending on how shite the UK leaving the EU goes.

    The SNP and Nicola Sturgeon would argue for a third, fourth and fifth referendum if the weather changed.

    There's also been no significant shift towards independence generally in the polls.
    I don't disagree with any of this, but the narrative of the recent Conservative majority is that the people have "voted to get Brexit done" (despite the Conservatives still not actually having a majority of the votes). If you choose to accept that narrative, then it's hard to argue with the narrative that the SNP majority in Scotland is the desire for independence.

    Also if you have such faith in the polls why do you not consider the shift to remain in the EU

    Quote Originally Posted by buttons View Post
    2019 UK Election: 68.1% of Scottish voters voted. 45% of those were for SNP meaning 55% for different parties.
    2016 Scottish Election: 55.6% voter turnout. 46.5% voted for SNP and 0.6% voted pro-independence Greens. 52.9% voted for parties against independence.
    2014 Referendum: 55% voted against independence with 45% voting for. 84.6% turnout.

    My opinion there then is that a vote for SNP is not necessarily a vote for independence. Whilst they get elected into parliament, voter turn out is relatively low and doesn't paint as big a picture as 55% voting against independence in a 84.6% turnout. What I find hilarious is the amount of SNP voters quoting Margaret Thatcher's "a vote for SNP is a vote for independence" to argue for a referendum when they were all joking and laughing when she died. They also aren't taking into consideration the amount of no voters and turnout rates for the elections SNP has been elected into. SNP votes this election could arguably just be votes against either Labour or Conservative and we shouldn't assume it's a growing trend for independence. I can say 100% the attitude and actions of Sturgeon after the referendum and during this election has turned me completely against Scottish Independence and my vote this time round will be different to last time round. Obviously not just because of Sturgeon but the whole way Brexit has been dealt with by different parties and their leaders turns me right off the idea of separation but I understand how it has also led to more pro-independence. I just think there's so much hypocrisy for people to be anti-brexit but Ok for the Scots to be pro-separation just because England didn't get the vote they wanted. It feels like egos more than politics at this point.


    It would be interesting to see if voter intention has changed and why. But I don't think Sturgeon and SNP voters should get cocky too quickly.
    To be clear, I don't believe that the UK election is any indicator of the SNP having a mandate for independence in the same way I don't believe the Conservative majority provides any mandate for their Brexit, but as said to Undertaker the entire narrative now is that they do have a mandate on 43.6% of the UK vote, but are arguing the SNP don't have a mandate on 45% of the Scottish vote. FPTP really isn't suitable for any of this.
    Last edited by dbgtz; 14-12-2019 at 08:38 PM.

  2. #32
    -:Undertaker:-'s Avatar
    -:Undertaker:- is online now Habbox Hall of Fame Inductee
    Former Rare Values Manager
    HabboxForum Top Poster
    Articles Writer


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Mijas, the Kingdom of Spain
    Country
    Spain
    Posts
    28,666
    Tokens
    180
    Habbo
    -:overtaker:-

    Latest Awards:

    Default

    You don't think the Conservatives winning a landslide against Labour is a mandate for Brexit?

    Continual moving of the goalposts. We literally had a vote on the precise question of Brexit, and people voted Leave.


    - European Elections 2014 = UKIP win advocating we leave the EU.
    - General Election 2015 = Conservatives win promising a renegotiation of membership and referendum.
    - EU Referendum 2016 = Leave campaign wins "once in a generation vote" by 52%.
    - General Election 2017 = Conservatives win most seats promising withdrawal, Labour also promise withdrawal.
    - European Elections 2019 = The Brexit Party win advocating we leave the EU.
    - General Election 2019 = Conservatives win a landslide promising imminent withdrawal.


    It's like, no matter how many times we vote under PR, FPTP and referenda you just will not accept it.

    It's over. Dead and buried. PLEASE just accept it. @dbgtz;

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    FPTP really isn't suitable for any of this.
    That's why Scotland and Britain as a whole had two referendums on these constitutional topics in 2014 and 2016.

    Scotland voted to stay part of Britain, and Britain voted to leave the EU. And that is what is now happening in both cases. #democracy
    Last edited by -:Undertaker:-; 14-12-2019 at 10:01 PM.



  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    12,313
    Tokens
    33,472
    Habbo
    dbgtz

    Latest Awards:

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    You don't think the Conservatives winning a landslide against Labour is a mandate for Brexit?

    Continual moving of the goalposts. We literally had a vote on the precise question of Brexit, and people voted Leave.


    - European Elections 2014 = UKIP win advocating we leave the EU.
    - General Election 2015 = Conservatives win promising a renegotiation of membership and referendum.
    - EU Referendum 2016 = Leave campaign wins "once in a generation vote" by 52%.
    - General Election 2017 = Conservatives win most seats promising withdrawal, Labour also promise withdrawal.
    - European Elections 2019 = The Brexit Party win advocating we leave the EU.
    - General Election 2019 = Conservatives win a landslide promising imminent withdrawal.


    It's like, no matter how many times we vote under PR, FPTP and referenda you just will not accept it.

    It's over. Dead and buried. PLEASE just accept it. @dbgtz;

    how am I continuinally moving the goal posts when I've consistently been against FPTP
    the fact is in all except the EU ref none of the "winners" had a majority, and I find it strange you describe UKIP and the BXP as winning when they did not have a majority of seats let alone votes

    ignoring all of that, the argument I initially made is the same, how can you really ignore the SNPs claims when they keep "winning" EU, Scottish and UK elections

    That's why Scotland and Britain as a whole had two referendums on these constitutional topics in 2014 and 2016.

    Scotland voted to stay part of Britain, and Britain voted to leave the EU. And that is what is now happening in both cases. #democracy
    nobody voted for a border in the Irish sea though lol
    Last edited by dbgtz; 14-12-2019 at 11:13 PM.

  4. #34
    -:Undertaker:-'s Avatar
    -:Undertaker:- is online now Habbox Hall of Fame Inductee
    Former Rare Values Manager
    HabboxForum Top Poster
    Articles Writer


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Mijas, the Kingdom of Spain
    Country
    Spain
    Posts
    28,666
    Tokens
    180
    Habbo
    -:overtaker:-

    Latest Awards:

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    ignoring all of that, the argument I initially made is the same, how can you really ignore the SNPs claims when they keep "winning" EU, Scottish and UK elections
    It really isn't hard.

    The SNP wanted a "once in a generation" referendum on independence. They even got to choose how the question was framed. They lost.
    Last edited by -:Undertaker:-; 14-12-2019 at 11:29 PM.



  5. #35
    -:Undertaker:-'s Avatar
    -:Undertaker:- is online now Habbox Hall of Fame Inductee
    Former Rare Values Manager
    HabboxForum Top Poster
    Articles Writer


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Mijas, the Kingdom of Spain
    Country
    Spain
    Posts
    28,666
    Tokens
    180
    Habbo
    -:overtaker:-

    Latest Awards:

    Default

    It gets worse for Labour.

    Lady Nugee - who calls herself Emily Thornberry - was, if you remember, the one who during the 2016 referendum campaign was campaigning on a council estate and took a photograph and sneered at someone flying the St George's flag from their house. In other words, sneering at the patriotic working class THE PEOPLE WHO LABOUR ARE SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT.

    Anyway, today former Labour MP Caroline Flint has spilt the beans and confirmed that Lady Nugee branded Leave voters in northern seats as 'thick'.






Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •