Illegal Immigrant Crisis: Hungarian Prime Minister says Europe in grip of madness

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...sponse-madness

Migration crisis: Hungary PM says Europe in grip of madness

Viktor Orbán attacks EU policy, saying the influx of Muslim refugees poses a threat to Europe’s Christian identity

Hungary joins Slovenia, Poland and the Czech Republic in rejecting acceping hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants.

Hungary’s prime minister, Viktor Orbán, has claimed Europe is in the grip of madness over immigration and refugees, and argued that he was defending European Christianity against a Muslim influx.

Orbán’s strong remarks came as he arrived in Brussels for a confrontation with EU leaders over his popular policies in Europe’s biggest migration emergency since the second world war. “Everything which is now taking place before our eyes threatens to have explosive consequences for the whole of Europe,” Orbán wrote in Germany’s Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. “Europe’s response is madness. We must acknowledge that the European Union’s misguided immigration policy is responsible for this situation.

“Irresponsibility is the mark of every European politician who holds out the promise of a better life to immigrants and encourages them to leave everything behind and risk their lives in setting out for Europe. If Europe does not return to the path of common sense, it will find itself laid low in a battle for its fate.” Germany, France, and Italy are demanding an overhaul of European asylum procedures. Attempts to get to grips with the crisis have left the EU floundering and the Schengen passport-free travel zone across 26 countries threatening to unravel.

“Today everything is immigration,” said the EU president, Donald Tusk, on Thursday. “We live in sobering, shocking times.”

“The Schengen treaty is under threat, that’s absolutely clear,” said Martin Schulz, the European parliament speaker, after meeting Orbán. “This is a crucial moment for the European Union. A deeper split of the union is a risk we cannot exclude.” As confusion over border controls and free movement deepen, there were chaotic scenes at Budapest’s Keleti railway station when the Hungarian authorities’ on-off approach to running the trains shifted. Thousands of people scrambled to board trains hoping they were heading for Germany after authorities restarted rail traffic a day after closing the station to refugees. “This is not a European problem, it’s a German problem,” said Orbán in Brussels. “They all want to go to Germany.”

Australian solution...

- PM Abbott suggests European nations copy successful policy

Orbán said the razor-wire fence erected on Hungary’s southern border with Serbia was essential to defending the Schengen zone’s external borders. He denied that the emergency was a refugee crisis, but one of mass migration. “Those arriving have been raised in another religion, and represent a radically different culture. Most of them are not Christians, but Muslims,” he said. “This is an important question, because Europe and European identity is rooted in Christianity. “Is it not worrying in itself that European Christianity is now barely able to keep Europe Christian? There is no alternative, and we have no option but to defend our borders.”

Orbán said quotas were not the answer. “Quotas is an invitation for those who want to come. The moral human thing is to make clear, please don’t come.”

The Hungarian Prime Minister seems to be the only one talking any sense, Cameron has already caved in this morning by pledging to accept 25,000 over a period of months because of some lunatic internet petition. Britain isn't even IN Schengan so what the **** does it have to do with us.

That said, other European countries shouldn't be taking these people either. You'll have noticed on news outlets like the BBC and Sky News they are being described as 'migrants' which is factually incorrect. A migrant is someone like your dad and my dad who will get a visa and go and work in Canada or Singapore. In much the same way, a genuine asylum seeker is somebody who flees to the first safe country they reach (because if your life is geninely in danger you really aren't picky you are just glad to be in safety). The hoardes coming into Europe and passing safe countries such as Turkey, Lebanon, Tunisia, Egypt are simply illegal immigrants.

What the morons wanting to let all these people in don't even understand is that by accepting more people you attract more people so you'll actually end up with more boat deaths. The Australians learnt this when their Labor Party kept granting people the right to stay and the problem was spiralling out of control, since the Liberal-Nationals got in and stated nobody would be granted stay the boats have completely stopped and there have been no more boat deaths. A win both in terms of no more deaths and the preservation of Anglo-Australian national identity.

And please, if you are going to argue with me don't be as low as to post a picture of a dead boy as the media have been doing so in their one-sided narrative of this. If you ask me, using the picture of a drowned boy to further a free-for-all border agenda is distasteful and foul.

Thoughts?

[abc]

Ah so we should go to other countries, pretend to help them (when in fact we just go their for our own interest like Oil etc) and when it backfires we should run away from the problem?

You forget that we messed up their countries by combing them or their neighbours, in turn creating terrorists which exist today. We have killed more people (directly and indirectly) than the "evil" leaders we went there to remove killed. Now that their country is literally ******, we want to let their people rot even more than the torture caused by their "evil" leaders. We created this problem and people fail to realise that. People are willing to die to escape the awful situation which we caused - this in itself shows how torturous the situation is. The least we can do is let them in our country.

Hopefully this situation will show us that we need to stop bombing other countries and mind our own damn business.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Ah so we should go to other countries, pretend to help them (when in fact we just go their for our own interest like Oil etc) and when it backfires we should run away from the problem?

You forget that we messed up their countries by combing them or their neighbours, in turn creating terrorists which exist today. We have killed more people (directly and indirectly) than the "evil" leaders we went there to remove killed. Now that their country is literally ******, we want to let their people rot even more than the torture caused by their "evil" leaders. We created this problem and people fail to realise that.

You confuse me with somebody who wanted to go into Iraq, Libya and Syria. I recall at the time of the Libyan and Syrian crisis, numerous people on this forum piled against me telling me how it was right to topple Gaddafi and later Assad and that it was different to Iraq as there wouldn't be any boots on the ground. I warned that destabilising both regimes would lead to worse people - now Islamic State - taking over.

Don't direct all that at me because I completely agree that the adventures to Libya and Syria were a disaster. It is interesting to note though that those who were arguing against me then as I suspect they will over the illegal immigrant crisis appealed to their emotions and feelings rather than a level-head: "how can you not want to overthrow Gaddafi/Assad and help all those people" was the same line coming from the same people who now will say "how can you not want to help those people fleeing Islamic State" forgetting that it was the beast they created. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

People are willing to die to escape the awful situation which we caused - this in itself shows how torturous the situation is. The least we can do is let them in our country.

Hopefully this situation will show us that we need to stop bombing other countries and mind our own damn business.

I'm afraid not. The idea that normal Britons should pay and then suffer the cultural consequences of allowing illegal immigrants in is just wrong as it was the leaders and media who pushed for military action and are now pushing for the illegal immigrants to be let in. The ideal solution, and one I would back is this: north London (home of the politicians and liberal media class) should have a wall built around it and illegals housed there.

But again, I refer to international asylum rules: these people aren't "fleeing" Turkey and Tunisia as both are safe countries. They are coming to Britain, Germany and the Netherlands because they know they will be pampered here hence why they are risking their lives for it. $$$.

[ToxicMint]

I'm afraid not. The idea that normal Britons should pay and then suffer the cultural consequences of allowing illegal immigrants in is just wrong as it was the leaders and media who pushed for military action and are now pushing for the illegal immigrants to be let in. The ideal solution, and one I would back is this: north London (home of the politicians and liberal media class) should have a wall built around it and illegals housed there.

But again, I refer to international asylum rules: these people aren't "fleeing" Turkey and Tunisia as both are safe countries. They are coming to Britain, Germany and the Netherlands because they know they will be pampered here hence why they are risking their lives for it. $$$.

omfgggg i laughed at blocking off london omg. i back that 100%.

[Empired]

I knew this thread would be coming up and although I don't really like using HxF anymore I am interested to see what people have to say about this and I'm glad to see I haven't been disappointed.

I, too, think that the change of public opinion followed by the picture of the dead toddler was outrageous but for very different reasons. We know people have been dying out there for weeks and weeks now but it takes the picture of one dead toddler for us to think "oh ****, we'd probably better do something"?! Of course it's a good thing that we've suddenly been given a kick up the backside but I am embarrassed because it looks like we're only interested in one toddler rather than a whole group of people in desperate need of help. It just seems like we're saying "**** everyone else, let's just save the toddlers! ... But we can't do that so we'll have to do something about all of them."

I don't really think there's much of an argument (or a sane argument, at the very least) against letting these people into our country. You can call them whatever you like- illegal immigrants, migrants, asylum seekers- but at the end of the day they are people just like you and me. If our situation was reversed we would be desperate for any safe countries to help us out so why is it so outrageous to suggest that we help them? And way in the future when our situations could very well be reversed, why should those countries help us out if we turn our backs now?

Of course we have the space! That argument makes us sound like we're all huddled on the Isle of Wight pushed right up against each other with no room to sit down or move. Isn't it Iceland who have been offering up their spare rooms for refugees to come and stay in? I'm sure if everyone in Europe who had a spare room offered their help the problem would be much easier to solve. And obviously I'm not saying let's force everyone to give up their spare rooms, but I am saying that this absurd "space" argument is just that: absurd. We don't need all this space, we just want it because it makes us more comfortable. And when there are people sitting out in the ocean on boats who would rather take those chances instead of going back to their own country, our comfort levels are really not that important.

And finally, I really don't think who "started it" should have any impact on what we should be doing now at all. The fact simply remains that if we can do something to help other human beings then there is no question that we should.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I agree with your point on the drowned child.

As it so happens, I have read that apparently the family were already based in Turkey yet the father decided to risk himself and his entire family to get to the more generous welfare states like Germany. The BBC and others of course don't mention any of this, and the way the press have behaved is sinister.

You can call them whatever you like- illegal immigrants, migrants, asylum seekers- but at the end of the day they are people just like you and me.

So let's take that argument then that everyone in the world is a human being, all the same and we should let them in.

What about the cultural problems that will arise?
What about the extremist elements of their culture which you would be bringing in?
What about the numbers? Where is the housing, education and welfare coming from when we can barely effort it for our own people?

And taking that logic to the extreme, if it is true... then you are suggesting there should be no limit to the numbers who keep coming? Are you really saying that? Even under a quota system it simply encourages more and more to come... we could already end up with a situation of millions upon millions of people flooding into European nations. Germany is already taking near to a million people - how on earth can a million+ people within months be integrated into German society?

And if you advocate that, don't the peoples of Europe - the native Europeans - get a say in whether their culture is diminished or entirely replaced?

our comfort levels are really not that important.

Yes they are. I do not want to live in a society plagued by sectarian divisions.

Is western civilisation, that took hundreds of years to achieve, that worthless to you that you'll simply give it up at the drop of a hat to feel good about yourself?

[FlyingJesus]

There's a huge difference between an illegal immigrant who just wants something easier than the non-luxurious life they were born in and asylum seekers whose lives are genuinely at risk. It's a matter of want vs need, and it's a very important distinction to make in order to not completely dehumanise people who sadly have no viable option other than to flee their homes in hope of not being tortured for saying things aren't perfect.

I'm not a fan of the idea that, having reached a safe state, they then feel it's worth moving on again - this is moving into the realm of want rather than need - but simply saying "oh sod them all" because you don't want the minor inconvenience of seeing someone who doesn't look like you is ridiculous.

how on earth can a million+ people within months be integrated into German society?

Quite easily considering Western society is exactly what these people are seeking. You're mistaking two very different groups of people

[-:Undertaker:-]

There's a huge difference between an illegal immigrant who just wants something easier than the non-luxurious life they were born in and asylum seekers whose lives are genuinely at risk. It's a matter of want vs need, and it's a very important distinction to make in order to not completely dehumanise people who sadly have no viable option other than to flee their homes in hope of not being tortured for saying things aren't perfect.

I'm not a fan of the idea that, having reached a safe state, they then feel it's worth moving on again - this is moving into the realm of want rather than need - but simply saying "oh sod them all" because you don't want the minor inconvenience of seeing someone who doesn't look like you is ridiculous.

If you continue to invent and make up what I have said to fit the racist slant you want to slap on me then i'm just not debating with you anymore until you stop. I have brought up a whole list of sensible and explained reasons as to why these illegal immigrants should not be allowed to stay in European nations, ranging from internationally agreed asylum laws - which they have broken - to cultural, social and security reasons. Not once was race or racial features mentioned.

I'm only going to have a sensible discussion on the points I raised rather than having racist screamed at me hysterically. I just won't put up with it anymore. It's boring. It gets repetitive. It drags the discussion down to the sewers and is a personal attack rather than an attack from an academic PoV. Just drop it for once.

[FlyingJesus]

That wasn't aimed at you (or I'd have quoted you before it) it was a general comment, no need to cry. Brilliant irony with you of all people trying to tell someone off for making up arguments though, top draw. You've also somehow managed to claim that you'll respond to discussion on the points raised and then totally ignored everything except for one subordinate clause that you wrongly took personally. If you'd like to try again without the tantrum, I'd be glad to continue this properly

[abc]

I'm afraid not. The idea that normal Britons should pay and then suffer the cultural consequences of allowing illegal immigrants in is just wrong as it was the leaders and media who pushed for military action and are now pushing for the illegal immigrants to be let in.

We voted for these leaders. You may disagree with our current electoral system but we voted for these leaders. These leaders take decisions on our behalf (even if we disagree with it) and we are the ones who need to live with the consequences. It is wrong to say we voted for these leaders, the leaders screwed up but the public shouldn't be affected by any negative actions. If we benefit from our leaders actions then we should suffer from it too.

I dislike how so many people forget that this country is rich by invading the world and taking all their wealth. Now to lord it over them is wrong. People moan that foreigners come and take our jobs? That very line makes me laugh. They take jobs because it shows how unqualified that other person is. Free Education and a person still can't become well qualified for a job. Yet others from countries where you have to pay for education are able to study hard and come and take a job. You know what, so many people in this country take Education for granted. Like it is a chore. Yet countries where you have to pay for it, people realise the importance and value of education and take loans.

The fact remains, if someone else (migrant or a british) gets a job over someone else, it is because the company at that moment in time decided the other person was more qualified.

I suggest people read these two links before going on about how UK is a hot migrant magnet.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...channel-tunnel

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...refugee-crisis

Btw the refugee we are talking about taking in are people from UN camps.

I completely agree with @Empired. Btw @-:Undertaker:- the above is not directed at you, it is directed at anyone who cries, moans and all the rest about how these illegals come to UK and take our jobs and benefits.